Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

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mick jagstang
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Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by mick jagstang » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:59 pm

I'm trying to get my new build intonated (using an American Professional Jaguar bridge) and though all my high strings are fine, my G and low E need to go further back than the saddle screw length! Right now I have the screws facing the pickups, but should I try turning the bridge around?

I'm using D'Addario 10s, low E string height is .02" at the 1st fret and .07" at the 12th, G is .02" at the 1st and .06" at the 12th.

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GreenKnee
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by GreenKnee » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:20 pm

Yes I would try the bridge the other way round with the saddle adjustment screws facing the vibrato.
I don't think you should have any issues intonating properly with those strings. Make sure the pickups aren't too close and causing some interference with the strings. I'm guessing the strings are new as it's a new build, but be sure to use new strings. The bridge rocks back and forth in the thimbles so make sure it is centralised.

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by jthomas » Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:43 pm

I had this problem with a Squire strat. I paid to have a tech look at it and he said that the neck needed a little less relief. That seemed to fix the issue with mine. YMMV.

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mick jagstang
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by mick jagstang » Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:09 pm

GreenKnee wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:20 pm
Yes I would try the bridge the other way round with the saddle adjustment screws facing the vibrato.
I don't think you should have any issues intonating properly with those strings. Make sure the pickups aren't too close and causing some interference with the strings. I'm guessing the strings are new as it's a new build, but be sure to use new strings. The bridge rocks back and forth in the thimbles so make sure it is centralised.
I taped the bridge posts so they don't rock in the thimbles since I made this a hardtail build

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jvin248
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by jvin248 » Wed Jun 22, 2022 3:25 am

.

How thick are your strings?
I had a Strat that did not have enough range when putting 10s on it so I went back to 9s and it was just fine.

Thinner strings need less intonation range than heavier strings.


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adamrobertt
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by adamrobertt » Sat Jun 25, 2022 9:19 am

GreenKnee wrote:
Tue Jun 21, 2022 1:20 pm
Yes I would try the bridge the other way round with the saddle adjustment screws facing the vibrato.
I don't think you should have any issues intonating properly with those strings. Make sure the pickups aren't too close and causing some interference with the strings. I'm guessing the strings are new as it's a new build, but be sure to use new strings. The bridge rocks back and forth in the thimbles so make sure it is centralised.
The saddle screws should be facing the vibrato normally; the opposite is only true of Gibsons with certain Tune-O-Matics. Also the saddle screw length shouldn't be an issue for the lower strings - generally they'll need to move toward the rear of the bridge - screw length should only be an issue if you need to move the saddles too far forward (toward the headstock).

I'm also not sure that flipping the bridge will accomplish anything on an Offset bridge, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try.

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by fisonic » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:50 pm

Before you go too far chasing the bridge, make sure the rest of your setup is dialed in first.
In order.
Neck Relief - Nut - Action - Intonation.
Each one is crucial to get right before moving on to the next.
As it hasn’t been said yet, I’ll throw my money on the nut.

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by Francer » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:30 am

Also, check you haven’t moved the bridge, or started from a point where your scale length is not correct.

I couldn’t get one of my JMs intonated once, and decided to measure scale length, none of my open strings were at 25.5” due to the bridge/saddles not being central. I suggest resetting everything and starting again. Get all you saddles in a line nice and central in the bridge and you bridge centred in the thimbles, make sure you have the correct scale length at this point and then start intonating.

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by adamrobertt » Sun Jun 26, 2022 12:54 pm

fisonic wrote:
Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:50 pm
Before you go too far chasing the bridge, make sure the rest of your setup is dialed in first.
In order.
Neck Relief - Nut - Action - Intonation.
Each one is crucial to get right before moving on to the next.
As it hasn’t been said yet, I’ll throw my money on the nut.
You're right on with this advice, except I'm skeptical that a nut can cause such bad intonation at the bridge unless it's literally like, an uncut preslotted nut that's super high or something.

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by fisonic » Sun Jun 26, 2022 4:43 pm

I’ve had a highish 3rd(G) that had the same issue on a new guitar, which is why I mentioned it. Short scale guitars tend to exaggerate the need for a well cut nut. If open chords especially A & D major/minor sound off compared to up the neck, I’d be checking the nut.

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jorri
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by jorri » Mon Jun 27, 2022 2:04 am

Well some of the recent bridge designs have shorter screws that don't allow for doing it when the bridge is oriented that way. A true vintage bridge has screws nearly as long as the bridge plate is wide. Somer newer ones stop around 2/3the way at a rough guess.

I'd very much check that we've not simply overlooked it as whilst i image an E having issues, a G is not usually as far back.

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Todd Connelly
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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by Todd Connelly » Mon Jul 04, 2022 7:14 pm

My advise would be to take the tape off the bridge posts. IMHO the bridge needs to angle back slightly towards the tail piece at rest. You want it balanced between the angle down to the nut and the angle down towards the tail piece. If you look at it from the side you can see that the angle down towards the tail piece is much steeper. This is exaggerated with hard-tail tail pieces. You need to balance that out. The offset bridge was not designed to be bolt upright at rest. Just my 2 cents.
Cheers............................Todd

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Re: Can't move saddle back far enough for proper intonation

Post by solfege » Fri Jul 15, 2022 7:33 pm

What others said re: checking the rest of the setup, but also, change the strings. Sometimes you get a weird one.

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