How to improve Sustain?
- ChrisDesign
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:21 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
How to improve Sustain?
Is there anything I can do to maximise sustain on a jazzmaster?
"I own a '66 Jaguar. That's the guitar I polish, and baby - I refuse to let anyone touch it when I jump into the crowd." - Kurt Cobain
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8803
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: How to improve Sustain?
A Mastery bridge improves it somewhat but only a little. As does proper heavyweight strings (11s or above) but they aren't very 'sustainy' guitars as a rule just by their design. The percussive attack and 'twang' are part of the sound that sets them aside from other guitars.ChrisDesign wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:23 amIs there anything I can do to maximise sustain on a jazzmaster?
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- MayTheFuzzBeWithYou
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2407
- Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2017 12:28 am
- Location: Linz, Austria
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Hey Chris!
In my experience (just player and modder, but far off luthier-expertise) the bridge and nut material make a great difference as does your string gauge (the bigger the better)
Mastery Bridges works great in that way!
You might also try to loosen and re-thighten all your tuners and the neck (and vibrato) screws. The less vibration from loose parts you get, the better.
Some claim that the Buzz Stop (used with a regular bridge) might do something like that too (but you‘d be sacrificing the overtone ringing tones)
I have a string through Telemaster (with cheap but good compensated brass saddles) and this thing also has a lot of sustain!
Lowering your pickups might help too (lettinh the strings vibrate better.
I‘m not 100% sure about shimming the neck. The Mastery wouldn‘t need it as it‘s a high friction bridge, but other bridges might profit from it...as tension on the strings and the saddles is increased.
Have you tried a sustainer or distortion pedal?
Here is an old thread (10 years) with more valuable information!
viewtopic.php?t=48111
In my experience (just player and modder, but far off luthier-expertise) the bridge and nut material make a great difference as does your string gauge (the bigger the better)
Mastery Bridges works great in that way!
You might also try to loosen and re-thighten all your tuners and the neck (and vibrato) screws. The less vibration from loose parts you get, the better.
Some claim that the Buzz Stop (used with a regular bridge) might do something like that too (but you‘d be sacrificing the overtone ringing tones)
I have a string through Telemaster (with cheap but good compensated brass saddles) and this thing also has a lot of sustain!
Lowering your pickups might help too (lettinh the strings vibrate better.
I‘m not 100% sure about shimming the neck. The Mastery wouldn‘t need it as it‘s a high friction bridge, but other bridges might profit from it...as tension on the strings and the saddles is increased.
Have you tried a sustainer or distortion pedal?
Here is an old thread (10 years) with more valuable information!
viewtopic.php?t=48111
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8803
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: How to improve Sustain?
These things are great for sustain but the key thing there is the string-through design. That, combined with the tight break angle over the bridge will always help a guitar sustain much more. The stock JM setup is so wildly different it's an apples and oranges comparison.MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 am
I have a string through Telemaster (with cheap but good compensated brass saddles) and this thing also has a lot of sustain!
OP, what Jazzmaster do you have? This will help us suggest things more accurately
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- noisepunk
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 16807
- Joined: Sat Apr 03, 2010 5:55 pm
- Location: glasgow, scotland
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
i recently re-shimmed the neck on my jazzmaster just to try a slightly steeper angle, and the sustain difference felt pretty massive to me. really tight neck/body contact is also meant to help with sustain (and supposedly, a good bolt-on neck will actually have better sustain than a neck through, or set neck), and this one does have a pretty tight neck pocket, so it was interesting to me that losing a fair amount of that contact wouldn't negate the improvements from higher bridge pressure.MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 amI‘m not 100% sure about shimming the neck. The Mastery wouldn‘t need it as it‘s a high friction bridge, but other bridges might profit from it...as tension on the strings and the saddles is increased.
i just have a stock bridge with mustang saddles on the ends, so i can't comment on how that would change things, but i imagine a chunkier, fixed bridge (like a mastery) with improved break angle would do quite a bit to increase sustain.
- Futuron
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 1213
- Joined: Fri Nov 10, 2017 3:19 am
- Location: Australia
- ChrisDesign
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:21 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Thanks everyone.
I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.
I have locking tuners, a bone nut (with lube), and a MIJ vibrato unit balanced as Leo intended. My neck is also shimmed at 0.25. My vibrato is also modern placement, about 1cm forward from the traditional location, so the break angle over the saddle is significantly higher than with traditional placement.
Higher string gauges sounds like the best option, but my dainty fingers can only bend 9’s. I have 9 hybrids. I used to play 10 hybrids and love the feel, but I just couldn’t get the bends down and my fingers were borderline bleeding.
I guess I’m out of options.
I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.
I have locking tuners, a bone nut (with lube), and a MIJ vibrato unit balanced as Leo intended. My neck is also shimmed at 0.25. My vibrato is also modern placement, about 1cm forward from the traditional location, so the break angle over the saddle is significantly higher than with traditional placement.
Higher string gauges sounds like the best option, but my dainty fingers can only bend 9’s. I have 9 hybrids. I used to play 10 hybrids and love the feel, but I just couldn’t get the bends down and my fingers were borderline bleeding.
I guess I’m out of options.
"I own a '66 Jaguar. That's the guitar I polish, and baby - I refuse to let anyone touch it when I jump into the crowd." - Kurt Cobain
- Lost In Autumn
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 886
- Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
- Location: Philadelphia
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Shim it more. add a .5º shim to make it .75ºChrisDesign wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:32 amThanks everyone.
I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.
I have locking tuners, a bone nut (with lube), and a MIJ vibrato unit balanced as Leo intended. My neck is also shimmed at 0.25. My vibrato is also modern placement, about 1cm forward from the traditional location, so the break angle over the saddle is significantly higher than with traditional placement.
Higher string gauges sounds like the best option, but my dainty fingers can only bend 9’s. I have 9 hybrids. I used to play 10 hybrids and love the feel, but I just couldn’t get the bends down and my fingers were borderline bleeding.
I guess I’m out of options.
- JSett
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8803
- Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
- Location: Old Hampshire, Old England
Re: How to improve Sustain?
The Staytrems don't really add any sustain at all as they're still floating. The Mastery bridges are a fixed type so add sustain due to the fixed point of vibration transfer.ChrisDesign wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:32 am
I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.
Try a larger shim, that will help a little...but strings of a decent size are the key. Either way, you're still not going to get buckets of sustain like a Tele, Les Paul, etc as it's just not the type of guitar that gives you that in a traditional sense.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?
- jorri
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3036
- Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 1:53 am
- Location: bath, UK
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Descendant Tremolo and/or bridge (the bridge could allow for a huge shim maybe).
Or...well, just not a jazzmaster
Also: i think the sturdier and less rattly a bridge is the less energy is lost so maybe a staytrem helps a little. I prefer Loctite, mustang style and anything to help saddles not shifting about with playing.
Plus the sweet spot of setup- not too high but not low enough to buzz with a relatively straight neck curve seems to be best.
Or...well, just not a jazzmaster
Also: i think the sturdier and less rattly a bridge is the less energy is lost so maybe a staytrem helps a little. I prefer Loctite, mustang style and anything to help saddles not shifting about with playing.
Plus the sweet spot of setup- not too high but not low enough to buzz with a relatively straight neck curve seems to be best.
- Larry Mal
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 19673
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
- Location: Saint Louis, MO
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Higher shim, Mastery bridge, just make sure you can have as much break angle in various places as you can. I find my Jazzmasters have a decent amount of sustain these days and that's what I do.
That being said, though, the relative lack of sustain with a Jazzmaster isn't really a negative or anything. Sustain can be great but it needs to be tightly controlled in a lot of other settings. So it's really all about what you want.
Old Leo designed the Jazzmaster for jazz, albeit imperfectly, and jazz guitarists do a lot of chordal comping, allowing the other instruments to be able to be heard lead and clear over the chordal bed. Sustain is not at all desirable here, take a listen to this especially around 6:45 to hear what I'm talking about, although of course for all I know you are a legendary jazz player anyway, still I put that there to illustrate what I'm talking about.
To some degree, then, you are working against what the guitar is supposed to be and do. Of course, Leo Fender didn't really know how to make his guitar a jazz guitar, so Jazzmasters are very versatile. And most of us play the Jazzmaster with round wound strings so they sound a lot differently from what the folks who designed the guitar heard, and there's inherently more sustain with those strings, anyway. But at no point in the design of the things was sustain a goal.
So I'd say that if sustain is the goal then there are a lot better choices of guitar that will simply provide you with as much of it as you could ever want without your having to do anything at all except play it. For instance, my father in law and I went to Chicago Music Exchange yesterday and played a Gibson ES-137 that they have there.
That thing sustained so much that I had to reach for the volume knob, convinced it was about to head into serious feedback. It was really something.
If sustain is the absolute goal, maybe just appreciate your Jazzmaster for what it is and get a guitar that sustains more as part of its overall nature.
That being said, though, the relative lack of sustain with a Jazzmaster isn't really a negative or anything. Sustain can be great but it needs to be tightly controlled in a lot of other settings. So it's really all about what you want.
Old Leo designed the Jazzmaster for jazz, albeit imperfectly, and jazz guitarists do a lot of chordal comping, allowing the other instruments to be able to be heard lead and clear over the chordal bed. Sustain is not at all desirable here, take a listen to this especially around 6:45 to hear what I'm talking about, although of course for all I know you are a legendary jazz player anyway, still I put that there to illustrate what I'm talking about.
To some degree, then, you are working against what the guitar is supposed to be and do. Of course, Leo Fender didn't really know how to make his guitar a jazz guitar, so Jazzmasters are very versatile. And most of us play the Jazzmaster with round wound strings so they sound a lot differently from what the folks who designed the guitar heard, and there's inherently more sustain with those strings, anyway. But at no point in the design of the things was sustain a goal.
So I'd say that if sustain is the goal then there are a lot better choices of guitar that will simply provide you with as much of it as you could ever want without your having to do anything at all except play it. For instance, my father in law and I went to Chicago Music Exchange yesterday and played a Gibson ES-137 that they have there.
That thing sustained so much that I had to reach for the volume knob, convinced it was about to head into serious feedback. It was really something.
If sustain is the absolute goal, maybe just appreciate your Jazzmaster for what it is and get a guitar that sustains more as part of its overall nature.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
- Caddy65
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 147
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 2:45 am
- Location: NW Indiana
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Anyone looking for a lot of sustain are looking at the wrong guitar if they are looking for a lot of sustain if they are looking at Jazzmasters or Jaguars. Both guitars were designed to not have much sustain. They were designed to have a sharper attack and to be very percussive. They are great for that and it is what makes them what they are. They also were designed when electric guitar strings only came in heavier gauges (like 11’s or 12’s).
You really shouldn’t be having any issues using 11’s. I am a small guy and 74 years old and have no problems at all playing with 11’s (with a wound third string).
You really shouldn’t be having any issues using 11’s. I am a small guy and 74 years old and have no problems at all playing with 11’s (with a wound third string).
- ChrisDesign
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:21 pm
- Location: UK
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
Playing 11’s = easy.Caddy65 wrote: ↑Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:58 amAnyone looking for a lot of sustain are looking at the wrong guitar if they are looking for a lot of sustain if they are looking at Jazzmasters or Jaguars. Both guitars were designed to not have much sustain. They were designed to have a sharper attack and to be very percussive. They are great for that and it is what makes them what they are. They also were designed when electric guitar strings only came in heavier gauges (like 11’s or 12’s).
You really shouldn’t be having any issues using 11’s. I am a small guy and 74 years old and have no problems at all playing with 11’s (with a wound third string).
Bending 11’s to play Black Sabbath solos = problem
"I own a '66 Jaguar. That's the guitar I polish, and baby - I refuse to let anyone touch it when I jump into the crowd." - Kurt Cobain
- adamrobertt
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2408
- Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 am
- Contact:
Re: How to improve Sustain?
11s are easy to bend, what are you talking about. 12s are where bending starts to get a little tricky but still isn't too bad IMO
- marqueemoon
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 7343
- Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
- Location: Seattle
Re: How to improve Sustain?
I would try a compressor if you want more clean sustain. Ideally something with a dry signal blend.
I think sustain is partially in *how* you play too. Getting the right notes to sustain in the right way.
I think sustain is partially in *how* you play too. Getting the right notes to sustain in the right way.