How to improve Sustain?

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ChrisDesign
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How to improve Sustain?

Post by ChrisDesign » Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:23 am

Is there anything I can do to maximise sustain on a jazzmaster?
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JSett
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by JSett » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:16 am

ChrisDesign wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 2:23 am
Is there anything I can do to maximise sustain on a jazzmaster?
A Mastery bridge improves it somewhat but only a little. As does proper heavyweight strings (11s or above) but they aren't very 'sustainy' guitars as a rule just by their design. The percussive attack and 'twang' are part of the sound that sets them aside from other guitars.
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by MayTheFuzzBeWithYou » Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 am

Hey Chris!

In my experience (just player and modder, but far off luthier-expertise) the bridge and nut material make a great difference as does your string gauge (the bigger the better)
Mastery Bridges works great in that way!
You might also try to loosen and re-thighten all your tuners and the neck (and vibrato) screws. The less vibration from loose parts you get, the better.

Some claim that the Buzz Stop (used with a regular bridge) might do something like that too (but you‘d be sacrificing the overtone ringing tones)
I have a string through Telemaster (with cheap but good compensated brass saddles) and this thing also has a lot of sustain!

Lowering your pickups might help too (lettinh the strings vibrate better.

I‘m not 100% sure about shimming the neck. The Mastery wouldn‘t need it as it‘s a high friction bridge, but other bridges might profit from it...as tension on the strings and the saddles is increased.

Have you tried a sustainer or distortion pedal?

Here is an old thread (10 years) with more valuable information!
viewtopic.php?t=48111

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by JSett » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:01 am

MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 am

I have a string through Telemaster (with cheap but good compensated brass saddles) and this thing also has a lot of sustain!
These things are great for sustain but the key thing there is the string-through design. That, combined with the tight break angle over the bridge will always help a guitar sustain much more. The stock JM setup is so wildly different it's an apples and oranges comparison.

OP, what Jazzmaster do you have? This will help us suggest things more accurately
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by noisepunk » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:30 am

MayTheFuzzBeWithYou wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 3:35 am
I‘m not 100% sure about shimming the neck. The Mastery wouldn‘t need it as it‘s a high friction bridge, but other bridges might profit from it...as tension on the strings and the saddles is increased.
i recently re-shimmed the neck on my jazzmaster just to try a slightly steeper angle, and the sustain difference felt pretty massive to me. really tight neck/body contact is also meant to help with sustain (and supposedly, a good bolt-on neck will actually have better sustain than a neck through, or set neck), and this one does have a pretty tight neck pocket, so it was interesting to me that losing a fair amount of that contact wouldn't negate the improvements from higher bridge pressure.

i just have a stock bridge with mustang saddles on the ends, so i can't comment on how that would change things, but i imagine a chunkier, fixed bridge (like a mastery) with improved break angle would do quite a bit to increase sustain.

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by Futuron » Sun Nov 28, 2021 4:38 am

Gain

;)

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by ChrisDesign » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:32 am

Thanks everyone.

I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.

I have locking tuners, a bone nut (with lube), and a MIJ vibrato unit balanced as Leo intended. My neck is also shimmed at 0.25. My vibrato is also modern placement, about 1cm forward from the traditional location, so the break angle over the saddle is significantly higher than with traditional placement.

Higher string gauges sounds like the best option, but my dainty fingers can only bend 9’s. I have 9 hybrids. I used to play 10 hybrids and love the feel, but I just couldn’t get the bends down and my fingers were borderline bleeding.

I guess I’m out of options.
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:58 am

ChrisDesign wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:32 am
Thanks everyone.

I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.

I have locking tuners, a bone nut (with lube), and a MIJ vibrato unit balanced as Leo intended. My neck is also shimmed at 0.25. My vibrato is also modern placement, about 1cm forward from the traditional location, so the break angle over the saddle is significantly higher than with traditional placement.

Higher string gauges sounds like the best option, but my dainty fingers can only bend 9’s. I have 9 hybrids. I used to play 10 hybrids and love the feel, but I just couldn’t get the bends down and my fingers were borderline bleeding.

I guess I’m out of options.
Shim it more. add a .5º shim to make it .75º

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by JSett » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:07 am

ChrisDesign wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 5:32 am

I have a Staytrem bridge, so I’m not looking to get a Mastery. I also assume the Staytrem’s sustain is similar to the Mastery.
The Staytrems don't really add any sustain at all as they're still floating. The Mastery bridges are a fixed type so add sustain due to the fixed point of vibration transfer.

Try a larger shim, that will help a little...but strings of a decent size are the key. Either way, you're still not going to get buckets of sustain like a Tele, Les Paul, etc as it's just not the type of guitar that gives you that in a traditional sense.
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by jorri » Sun Nov 28, 2021 6:36 am

Descendant Tremolo and/or bridge (the bridge could allow for a huge shim maybe).

Or...well, just not a jazzmaster

Also: i think the sturdier and less rattly a bridge is the less energy is lost so maybe a staytrem helps a little. I prefer Loctite, mustang style and anything to help saddles not shifting about with playing.

Plus the sweet spot of setup- not too high but not low enough to buzz with a relatively straight neck curve seems to be best.

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:27 am

Higher shim, Mastery bridge, just make sure you can have as much break angle in various places as you can. I find my Jazzmasters have a decent amount of sustain these days and that's what I do.

That being said, though, the relative lack of sustain with a Jazzmaster isn't really a negative or anything. Sustain can be great but it needs to be tightly controlled in a lot of other settings. So it's really all about what you want.

Old Leo designed the Jazzmaster for jazz, albeit imperfectly, and jazz guitarists do a lot of chordal comping, allowing the other instruments to be able to be heard lead and clear over the chordal bed. Sustain is not at all desirable here, take a listen to this especially around 6:45 to hear what I'm talking about, although of course for all I know you are a legendary jazz player anyway, still I put that there to illustrate what I'm talking about.

To some degree, then, you are working against what the guitar is supposed to be and do. Of course, Leo Fender didn't really know how to make his guitar a jazz guitar, so Jazzmasters are very versatile. And most of us play the Jazzmaster with round wound strings so they sound a lot differently from what the folks who designed the guitar heard, and there's inherently more sustain with those strings, anyway. But at no point in the design of the things was sustain a goal.

So I'd say that if sustain is the goal then there are a lot better choices of guitar that will simply provide you with as much of it as you could ever want without your having to do anything at all except play it. For instance, my father in law and I went to Chicago Music Exchange yesterday and played a Gibson ES-137 that they have there.

That thing sustained so much that I had to reach for the volume knob, convinced it was about to head into serious feedback. It was really something.

If sustain is the absolute goal, maybe just appreciate your Jazzmaster for what it is and get a guitar that sustains more as part of its overall nature.
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by Caddy65 » Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:58 am

Anyone looking for a lot of sustain are looking at the wrong guitar if they are looking for a lot of sustain if they are looking at Jazzmasters or Jaguars. Both guitars were designed to not have much sustain. They were designed to have a sharper attack and to be very percussive. They are great for that and it is what makes them what they are. They also were designed when electric guitar strings only came in heavier gauges (like 11’s or 12’s).

You really shouldn’t be having any issues using 11’s. I am a small guy and 74 years old and have no problems at all playing with 11’s (with a wound third string).

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by ChrisDesign » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:40 am

Caddy65 wrote:
Sun Nov 28, 2021 7:58 am
Anyone looking for a lot of sustain are looking at the wrong guitar if they are looking for a lot of sustain if they are looking at Jazzmasters or Jaguars. Both guitars were designed to not have much sustain. They were designed to have a sharper attack and to be very percussive. They are great for that and it is what makes them what they are. They also were designed when electric guitar strings only came in heavier gauges (like 11’s or 12’s).

You really shouldn’t be having any issues using 11’s. I am a small guy and 74 years old and have no problems at all playing with 11’s (with a wound third string).
Playing 11’s = easy.

Bending 11’s to play Black Sabbath solos = problem
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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by adamrobertt » Sun Nov 28, 2021 8:51 am

11s are easy to bend, what are you talking about. 12s are where bending starts to get a little tricky but still isn't too bad IMO

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Re: How to improve Sustain?

Post by marqueemoon » Sun Nov 28, 2021 9:48 am

I would try a compressor if you want more clean sustain. Ideally something with a dry signal blend.

I think sustain is partially in *how* you play too. Getting the right notes to sustain in the right way.

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