An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
- mcjt
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
-sigh- some people were born to argue.
FP: you are doubtful that the guitar is original... I'm with you!
FP: you are doubtful that the guitar is original... I'm with you!
- fullerplast
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Of course it can't be proven either way by the pics he posted. Wouldn't you think someone hoping to get 32k for a guitar would show some guts or some kind of provenance?
I feel 99.99999999999% sure it is either unoriginal or the guy doesn't know what it is. At any rate, it's suspect.
Beautiful guitar though!
I feel 99.99999999999% sure it is either unoriginal or the guy doesn't know what it is. At any rate, it's suspect.
Beautiful guitar though!
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- spacecadet
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Who's arguing?mcjt wrote:-sigh- some people were born to argue.
- sjperry54
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
I agree that without gut shots, neck date it's hard to date this guitar. The possibility exits that this is a 58-59 that was sent to the factory for a total refin in 62 resulting in the then current decal. This was not an uncommon occurrence back then.
- Spit on a Stranger
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Man, Spacecadet just can't get a break today.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being an original 62, though. Who says the guard even has to be one left lying around from the 50s? We already mentioned that if this is a legitimate 62, the color alone suggests some sort of custom job. Is it really that far off to believe that the original owner could have paid the extra money for a gold guard?
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being an original 62, though. Who says the guard even has to be one left lying around from the 50s? We already mentioned that if this is a legitimate 62, the color alone suggests some sort of custom job. Is it really that far off to believe that the original owner could have paid the extra money for a gold guard?
- fullerplast
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
I suppose its possible, but that would be kind of like ordering a 2013 car with a 2009 grille.Spit on a Stranger wrote:Man, Spacecadet just can't get a break today.
I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being an original 62, though. Who says the guard even has to be one left lying around from the 50s? We already mentioned that if this is a legitimate 62, the color alone suggests some sort of custom job. Is it really that far off to believe that the original owner could have paid the extra money for a gold guard?
Anything's possible, but I personally don't think it's likely.
The factory refin is a more plausible scenario, but again, without seeing the neck heel and underguard, examining the pots, etc., all of this is speculation.
We don't have any idea how or why the seller even came up with 1962, other than the patent numbers, which is nebulous.
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- Spit on a Stranger
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
I don't know that it's fair to compare the two. Aesthetic customizations are far more common on guitars than on cars. Not to say people don't customize their cars based upon looks, but the difference between anodized gold and tortoise is way more apparent than the changes made to a car grille over the course of four years.fullerplast wrote:I suppose its possible, but that would be kind of like ordering a 2013 car with a 2009 grille.
But I'm also not saying that's the case here. It's definitely an oddity, and maybe even suspicious, but almost anything is possible with this guitar. I wouldn't rule anything out.
- fullerplast
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Fair enough, but even in terms of guitars, I dont think many people would special order one with a short-lived feature from last decade. I doubt that gold guards were all that cool in '62, but I don't know.
I vote D... not enough information to tell.
I vote D... not enough information to tell.
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- Lobsterdeth
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
man what the fug you all goin bout
dat guitar is all original
original guitar
strait up og
literally og gold on gold shit man what you mean not original
dat guitar is all original
original guitar
strait up og
literally og gold on gold shit man what you mean not original
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
I vote factory refin/refresh.
- Getmad24_7
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Well, I think if he's going gold hardware and finish, the person custom ordering it would ask for one of those golden pickguards too.fullerplast wrote:Fair enough, but even in terms of guitars, I dont think many people would special order one with a short-lived feature from last decade. I doubt that gold guards were all that cool in '62, but I don't know.
I vote D... not enough information to tell.
- fullerplast
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Yes, especially when they were only made four years earlier for just a few months then quickly phased out. I'm sure it was an available option before there was even a custom shop. I'm sure they had loads laying around but only this one person ever ordered one, so it's the only that's surfaced in the 30 years I've been into vintage guitars, and no one that I know of has ever known about it or mentioned it... and no one has ever written about it in any publication over the years, no mention in print or on the web that the gold guard was still available into the 60s. Yep... It's very likely.Getmad24_7 wrote:Well, I think if he's going gold hardware and finish, the person custom ordering it would ask for one of those golden pickguards too.fullerplast wrote:Fair enough, but even in terms of guitars, I dont think many people would special order one with a short-lived feature from last decade. I doubt that gold guards were all that cool in '62, but I don't know.
I vote D... not enough information to tell.
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- farmer42
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
Actually, this period Fender, Leo probably did have stockpiles of extra parts. It was one of the things that hurt Fender. Leo bought too much, and several of the instruments didn't sell as well as he thought (including the Jazzmaster). So it's fairly like there WERE parts just lying around.mcjt wrote:I'm in manufacturing and things don't lie around much. those aluminum guards back in the day were more expensive and time consuming to make- and then didn't match the new template.
- fullerplast
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
I dunno about that, I read that he was notoriously frugal. They kept building JMs after July of '59, it stands to reason that they would use up all the guards. It's not like they didnt sell well enough to use what they had! It stayed in production for decades. They changed the routing and went through a few variations of the tort guards before they settled on 13 holes. I can't see them having gold guards just sitting around when the bodies no longer could use them. I don't think they were concerned with spares in those days. Remember, when they serviced a guitar, they put up-to-date parts on them (even the logo).farmer42 wrote:Actually, this period Fender, Leo probably did have stockpiles of extra parts. It was one of the things that hurt Fender. Leo bought too much, and several of the instruments didn't sell as well as he thought (including the Jazzmaster). So it's fairly like there WERE parts just lying around.mcjt wrote:I'm in manufacturing and things don't lie around much. those aluminum guards back in the day were more expensive and time consuming to make- and then didn't match the new template.
Also, the gold guard was proven to not be the best design (Leo didn't like it), that's why they changed to tort with an aluminum shield. Very unlikely they would retrofit "modern" guitars with a phased-out part. That doesn't happen from an engineering,manufacturing, or quality standpoint.
I'm confident that if the gold guard was used on new guitars after mid-'59... we would know it. Someone would have known it and it would be public information.
No one knows either way, and no one here has examined this guitar personally inside and out. As I said before, we are all speculating. But I would bet the farm on my opinion. It's either a later guitar with an earlier guard, or a earlier guitar that went back for service. There's no way it's an all original '62. It's just too unlikely to keep making up scenarios. Things like this, even with Fender, just typically don't happen.
Remember Forrest White's supposed prototype JM that was Fiesta Red, had a 13 hole mint guard, and a pat # tail? I didn't believe that one either, and it came from the estate of his family when they tried selling it for $80K. Memories get sketchy and tales changed when they are passed around. This gold guard '62 is just as unlikely.
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- cursesfoiled
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Re: An original ALL GOLD '62 Jazzmaster
My bet is that it's a factory refinished guitar that got new hardware in 1962. The logo was probably redone during the refinish and a new gold plated neck plate was put on the guitar. But the neck pencil date will likely show it to be '58-'60.
But, Fullerplast, I'm not entirely doubtful that Fender couldn't have dug up an anodized guard from 2 years prior, if they had a special customer request for an "all gold guitar" or if they were making a show sample. They might have cannibalized it from an older guitar, or had a few left somewhere. They might even have just made a one off for a special customer, following the old 9-hole template because it looks better with fewer screws - if someone was really insistent (read: connected or paying $$$) that it had to be all gold.
I don't think of it like ordering a 2011 car with a 2009 grill. I think of it like, "well, if we need a gold pickguard for this all-gold guitar, let's use something we already have, rather than re-invent the wheel."
But, Fullerplast, I'm not entirely doubtful that Fender couldn't have dug up an anodized guard from 2 years prior, if they had a special customer request for an "all gold guitar" or if they were making a show sample. They might have cannibalized it from an older guitar, or had a few left somewhere. They might even have just made a one off for a special customer, following the old 9-hole template because it looks better with fewer screws - if someone was really insistent (read: connected or paying $$$) that it had to be all gold.
I don't think of it like ordering a 2011 car with a 2009 grill. I think of it like, "well, if we need a gold pickguard for this all-gold guitar, let's use something we already have, rather than re-invent the wheel."