AVRI JM GAS? What does THAT mean? The Acronym Directory!

[andy_tchp]

It's the actual painting your face black demonstration of "blackface" that's offensive and culturally insensitive, not the combination of two words describing the faceplate of an amplifier. 'Puisheen' can fuck off.

[JSett]

It's the actual painting your face black demonstration of "blackface" that's offensive and culturally insensitive, not the combination of two words describing the faceplate of an amplifier. 'Puisheen' can fuck off.

Exactly

[sal paradise]

I’d tread carefully here without more insight. I’m hoping the discussion was based around the views of black musicians.

Otherwise what’s the point? We’ll erase every descriptive term from the English language to protect the feelings of minorities and disabilities etc. There’s a balance to be had here. And that balance is context. A non-pejorative, descriptive term feels like it needn’t be on the “stop saying that” list.

[JSett]

I’m hoping the discussion was based around the views of black musicians.

I guarantee no black musicians were consulted about their views on the matter before the pearl clutching and virtue signalling commenced.

[unsui]

While watching Puisheen’s vid, I thought ok so Lollar is changing the name of their pickups previously known as black face.
Later, he mentioned that Guitar mag and even Fender no longer use the term either.
And while researching my ‘64 Vibro Champ, I saw that reverb.com using black panel in the name of an article.
Not trying to stir the pot here, just noticing the change.

One term mentioned in the vid I hadn’t heard before was “California Girl” for 50’s Gibson cases.
Tan on the outside, and pink on the inside.
Yeah, I’m kinda glad that my pawn shop purchased ‘56 ES225 didn’t come with the original case.
Not only does the term sound like an 8th grader came up with it, looking it up, that’s just fugly to my eyes.

[DeathJag]

The way I feel about it, it's an unfortunate term that evolved independent of its performative counterpart. The term blackface didn't used to be offensive, it was just a popular style of comedy. This type of comedy, through the lens of history, has become widely accepted as insulting and racist. Because of this, the amp term is now associated with a negative term, because it is the same term. This is why I now use panel instead of face. Why perpetuate a negative thing needlessly? Also while it may be a face plate, it is also a front panel, therefore both terms are accurate.

[unsui]

The way I feel about it, it's an unfortunate term that evolved independent of its performative counterpart. The term blackface didn't used to be offensive, it was just a popular style of comedy. This type of comedy, through the lens of history, has become widely accepted as insulting and racist. Because of this, the amp term is now associated with a negative term, because it is the same term. This is why I now use panel instead of face. Why perpetuate a negative thing needlessly? Also while it may be a face plate, it is also a front panel, therefore both terms are accurate.

I gotta agree with most of what you said.
It doesn’t take much, if any real effort for my to use the term black panel, and also brown panel too, and hey, if it puts a little more goodness out in the world for someone, cool.
But I gotta ask, when you said it didn’t used to be offensive - to whom, the people that used that term ? I trust that you’re not suggesting that black people back in the day were cool with it.

Life has only recently allowed me to begin spending more time on here, and only made the OP as a BTW.
I’ve most been lurking learning more about my offsets on here, thanks to the gobs of info everyone is willing to share.
Now, just gotta get to my offset family pic…

[JSett]

Ergh, I can't be bothered to argue this.

I can provide a reason why I find the word 'panel' offensive but I doubt anyone cares.

[DeathJag]

But I gotta ask, when you said it didn’t used to be offensive - to whom, the people that used that term ? I trust that you’re not suggesting that black people back in the day were cool with it.

Good distinction! One I failed to make. Of course it was offensive (to those it was mocking) at the time, as was just about every single other thing white people were doing.

This reminds me of a few years ago when a female friend of mine convinced me that using the word douche (and a host of other words) as anything negative was anti-woman. Calling men bitches or douches is still anti-women. It took me about a year and a half but I finally realized that she was correct, and that language is very powerful. I suppose this is another reason why I gratefully switched over to saying panel; I felt weird saying black face or brown face. Luckily silver face is still okay ha ha!

To my good friend Johnny, language evolves and many times it goes in ways that we don't prefer.

[JSett]

*devils advocate*

Please can you refrain from using the word 'panel'? It's Old French origins are offensive to me due to the systematic oppression of my ancestral Bretonic heritage and language by the French. We have been displaced and marginalised since the 4th century and still, to this day, face adversity and denial by the French government and it's national racism towards the Bretons. By using words of Old French etymology you are triggering an entire minority race of people. My grandmother was banned from speaking her native tongue as a child in school.

...see how this can go both ways? In fact, in ANY direction if you want it to?

[unsui]

*devils advocate*

Please can you refrain from using the word 'panel'? It's Old French origins are offensive to me due to the systematic oppression of my ancestral Bretonic heritage and language by the French. We have been displaced and marginalised since the 4th century and still, to this day, face adversity and denial by the French government and it's national racism towards the Bretons. By using words of Old French etymology you are triggering an entire minority race of people. My grandmother was banned from speaking her native tongue as a child in school.

...see how this can go both ways? In fact, in ANY direction if you want it to?

Yeah of course you could go down that road, researching every word known to humans and find a way to make your argument.
While I’m not familiar with the history of the Bretons, I’ll look it up. But I do believe that your conflating here - you, the devil’s advocate, find the fact that a word that unless you tell me otherwise, is/was not used derisively against Bretons, but still is derived from a language of a people that oppressed your
ancestors. And you’re comparing that to a word that describes in very real terms, how one people would belittle, mock, and as caricatures, of black people being inferior and subhuman.

At the end of the day, I don’t use certain words, curse words or otherwise, around certain people like my boss, coworkers, my friends, and definitely not around certain members of my family.

But hey if you let the expletives/offensives fly, no matter the people around you, then cool, that’s what makes you, you.

Lastly, and in all seriousness, if you don’t already know it, check out the book semantic antics.

[unsui]

But I gotta ask, when you said it didn’t used to be offensive - to whom, the people that used that term ? I trust that you’re not suggesting that black people back in the day were cool with it.

Good distinction! One I failed to make. Of course it was offensive (to those it was mocking) at the time, as was just about every single other thing white people were doing.

This reminds me of a few years ago when a female friend of mine convinced me that using the word douche (and a host of other words) as anything negative was anti-woman. Calling men bitches or douches is still anti-women. It took me about a year and a half but I finally realized that she was correct, and that language is very powerful. I suppose this is another reason why I gratefully switched over to saying panel; I felt weird saying black face or brown face. Luckily silver face is still okay ha ha!

To my good friend Johnny, language evolves and many times it goes in ways that we don't prefer.

Nice - I had a nearly identical thing happen between me and a close female friend. It made me realize that if it’s not cool to use those words of front of her - I sure didn’t use them at work and definitely not around family - then how is it ok around anybody ?

And to your point, language most definitely evolves.
I was GM at a restaurant and I asked a 17-18yo kid how his dessert was. He responded that it was luxurious. He mom said that’s not the correct usage ! I told her I get what he’s saying, but she said, yeah but it’s still incorrect.
Asked her if she used the word cool - and did it always mean what she intends it to mean when she uses it ?
Her son busted out laughing, and got her going too.

[andy_tchp]

the amp term is now associated with a negative term, because it is the same term.

It is neither of these things.

The term itself isn't negative or offensive - even when describing the type of comedy that has thankfully long been consigned to the dustbin of history - it is the performance in 'blackface' which is highly racist.

Please advise: What is the 'acceptable' term when discussing/describing historical stuff like the 'Black and White minstrel Show' or other shows involving performers in blackface?

[DeathJag]

the amp term is now associated with a negative term, because it is the same term.

It is neither of these things.

The term itself isn't negative or offensive - even when describing the type of comedy that has thankfully long been consigned to the dustbin of history - it is the performance in 'blackface' which is highly racist.

Please advise: What is the 'acceptable' term when discussing/describing historical stuff like the 'Black and White minstrel Show' or other shows involving performers in blackface?

Of course you are technically correct here. It is the same words as a performance of which was a terrible thing. Semantics. My point is why bring it up if there is an alternative? Historical and amp discussions aside, I can't really imagine hearing it used in a positive way.

The panel thing is a false equivalence. "Panel" may very well be an offensive word to lots of people. The fact that I've never met or heard of them doesn't matter, I completely understand. However, lots of words come from French and it would seem to be counterproductive to resent that. In other words, if it really pisses you off and triggers an emotional response, your energy might be better directed to diffuse that rather than keep the fire burning. Believe me, as a suffer of many triggers. When you remove the trigger, you're talking about the same kind of systemic bullshit that lots of governments do - and it totally fucking sucks! The other thing is scale, I'm talking about over half the population.

[JSett]

For those that don't know (likely most of you), my ancestors the Bretons were one of the original/indigenous inhabitants of the south of the British Isles. They were forced out and ostracised partially by the Romans and then almost fully by the Anglo-Saxons. Most of what few remained after the slaughter ended up in the northern peninsular of France (subsequently named 'Brittany' - of which the etymology is obvious). Gradually from the 4th century until present day the French have tried to suppress and eliminate the culture, heritage and language (a Celtic language likely older than Irish and Scottish Gaelic). This is still a thing, and the Breton people are still fighting for recognition of their culture and language to be an accepted part of France. It is racism and oppression of a minority.

BUT, of course, I'm being mildly facetious in my example as I actually find no words offensive. But it's still applicable in comparison IMHO. The truth is that words are just words and are not 'violence' as some out there in the world seem to think. They can be used AS violence but are really nothing more than collections of letters. Being offended by a particular combination over another particular combination is nothing more than a feeling and a whine. It's all about context and delivery.

If we stopped making these things a thing, or allowing them to be, then the walls would come down easier and there'd be a lot less animosity in the world. But, then again, no one's perfect and people do have a tendency to let feelings overpower their logic. By pandering to these things we actually cause more resentment and division by highlighting our differences as humans rather than trying to put them to one side.

And this will be a sensitive (or should I say DE-sensitive) subject for a lot of Americans, but I also find it hard to allow any 'moral high-ground' to be preached to me from a country where over half of the male population are still repeatedly subjected to Infant Genital Mutilation that's approved by their government and widely accepted as a-ok (and yes, I am aware of my own's horrible track record on other things, I hate my country too). Decrying the use of the words "Black Face" when simply referring to a guitar amplifiers black face plate whilst ignoring institutionalised child abuse is more than a little "pot calling the kettle black (face)" and stinks of virtue signalling.

There's certainly bigger things to try and fix first, but it's classic white America to fixate on easier things that look good than digging deep and having to work hard to really make solid positive change. It's like recycling your glass bottles but still burning tires in your back yard.