Which Jaguar should I get?

[sunburster]

This classic video is the best sound comparison I've found of the Marr vs AV65:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHiX4LNx_EU

(And hey, I have that same Ice Blue AV65! My Marr is a Lake Placid Blue, though.)

BTW my Marr Jag has a slightly narrower nut width than my AV65. I don't have digital calipers, but with my ruler the Marr looks like it's just a bit over 41mm, while the AV65 is at least 42mm. I can feel the difference, but it's minor. The Marr is about as narrow as I can go before it starts to bother me. I've found AV/AVRI guitars aim for 42mm in the spec sheet, but can be +/- 1mm in the final measurement. I had an AVRI62 Jag with a 43mm nut, for example, and my AVRI62 Strat and JM were both 42mm. Same deal with the Japanese guitars.

[OffYourFace]

This classic video is the best sound comparison I've found of the Marr vs AV65:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHiX4LNx_EU

Yeah this video is great, I saw it over the weekend.

BTW my Marr Jag has a slightly narrower nut width than my AV65. I don't have digital calipers, but with my ruler the Marr looks like it's just a bit over 41mm, while the AV65 is at least 42mm.

Thanks! I think with the binding it's always going to be wider. The JMarr specs show 42mm but i'm sure it varies. My MIJ neck measures around 41.5mm. It's such a great neck. I wouldn't want it any smaller.

[OffYourFace]

Also, the AVRI 62 is catching up. Why do you voters prefer it to the AO/AV65?

[GilmourD]

I keep reading it was spec’d by Leo for them to have it but most did not?

That wasn't on purpose. At first with the Jazzmasters they made the neck and bridge pickups identical except for the magnet polarity and the coil direction, but they would get mixed up during assembly, so a bunch of guitars left the factory with non-RWRP setups. After a year or two they changed it so that one of the pickups had a yellow wire instead of white so they could tell the difference.

I don't think Jaguars generally had that issue, though. The Marrguar Bare Knuckles are that way as a specific decision regarding harmonics and the belief that RWRP cancels different frequencies than non-RWRP. The only way to really know for sure is to compare the standard Marrguar BKs to pickups that are identical other than being RWRP and throw them on an oscilloscope.

The only thing that very slightly muddies my comparison of the Marrguar is that mine is built out of parts and not entirely actual Marrguar parts. I got myself a body in KO off Reverb and a BK pickup harness with the plates off eBay. I put an AVRI trem on it (correct) with a Staytrem arm/collet (not something that would affect tone) but I've got what's basically a Classic Vibe bridge with the saddles off a 55mm 7.25" radius bridge on it and a BYOGuitar D&B neck I got cheap on eBay and reshaped the back slightly, so either of those two things (bridge and neck) could affect things.

I've got the pickups up high, like I tend to with Jag pickups, but I find them to actually be comparable in output to my other Jags outside of The Gator that has the MIM high-output Jag set in it. If anything I think it sounds most like the Vintera set I have in my CFM Jag.

[B.T.]

I was just trying to find the answer to my original question in regards to why people keep saying they sound “Ric” or “Tele” like.

The wound to sound like a Ric sounds more like a Smiths fan’s imagination at work. The tele comparison also with the exception of maybe the RWRP angle. Johnny claims they’re exact replicas of his what sounds like his favorite ‘62 Jag’s pups. I’m inclined to believe the man.

Has anyone confirmed if the Marr Jag pickups are wound with formvar or enamel wire?

[sunburster]

I was just trying to find the answer to my original question in regards to why people keep saying they sound “Ric” or “Tele” like.

Right over here:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=127635&start=15#p1814215

I actually sold my last Ric 360 because my AV65 sounded so similar (but better, and more versatile!). My Marr sounds even more similar to the Ric in Series/Parallel.

The wound to sound like a Ric sounds more like a Smiths fan’s imagination at work. The tele comparison also with the exception of maybe the RWRP angle.

I'm not a Smiths fan so I can't comment on that. Just owned a lot of teles and Rics in the past so I'm very familiar with their tones.

[B.T.]

I actually sold my last Ric 360 because my AV65 sounded so similar (but better, and more versatile!). My Marr sounds even more similar to the Ric in Series/Parallel.

Long time Ric owner with a preference for 12's. I believe you when you're saying that you're getting the Ric tones you're wanting out of the Marr Jag.

As I hinted at I was thinking there was something special to the circuit that allowed it to get Ric & Tele tones.
Since posing the question, and between all the great responses including my own digging I feel in the end Johnny found a really special '62 Jag that he wanted to replicate because it checked some of those boxes with it's scale length and stock pickups. I also suspect he wanted road worthy clones with some added improvements for versatility when playing live.

It's definitely fueled the gas on my end!

[B.T.]

Has anyone confirmed if the Marr Jag pickups are wound with formvar or enamel wire?

I was digging into this and from photos I've seen it appears the Marr Jag's pickups are wound with formvar wire and what I'm seeing in other Fender Jag offerings like their 65 pups are wound with enamel wire. With everything else being basically the same specs I would guess that is might be what people are hearing difference wise. Again, JM states that his sig guitar has exact replicas of his favorite '62 Jag so I'm guessing they went with formvar.

[panoramic]

of those the av65 was the biggest neck. It was the jaguar I was least interested in because you know, i am a smaller scale dude

[OffYourFace]

dang this poll is a nail biter haha.

still leaning towards the Marr... one reason is that it's still being made and I might be able to get it at a discount. Not sure yet.

[B.T.]

dang this poll is a nail biter haha.

still leaning towards the Marr... one reason is that it's still being made and I might be able to get it at a discount. Not sure yet.

That comparison video pulls me in both directions. The simplest solution would be to get both!

Edit: I bet some of the harsher overtones of the AV65 could be tamed with lowering the pickups some. And one could probably get the Marr Jag a little more aggressive with raising them if there was room to spare?

I don't really get why the series setting goes so dark on the Marr Jag. I have a push/pull pot setup on my Jazzmaster to allow it to kick in series in the middle position and it stays bright but with a lot more volume and range.

[GilmourD]

I don't really get why the series setting goes so dark on the Marr Jag. I have a push/pull pot setup on my Jazzmaster to allow it to kick in series in the middle position and it stays bright but with a lot more volume and range.

Depends on which harmonics are accentuated and which are canceled, and since Jag pickups and JM pickups have different harmonic content due to them both having differently sized sections of string within their magnetic fields, it's predictable that it'll be different. How it'll be different will require an oscilloscope. LOL

[B.T.]

I don't really get why the series setting goes so dark on the Marr Jag. I have a push/pull pot setup on my Jazzmaster to allow it to kick in series in the middle position and it stays bright but with a lot more volume and range.

Depends on which harmonics are accentuated and which are canceled, and since Jag pickups and JM pickups have different harmonic content due to them both having differently sized sections of string within their magnetic fields, it's predictable that it'll be different. How it'll be different will require an oscilloscope. LOL

It's possible but I suspect something else is involved, possibly somewhere in the circuit? I have owned vintage, modern Danelectro's, Jerry Jone's that have the single coils in series stock, and I have added that mod to Strats, Tele's, and more recently my Jazzmaster. In parallel I've heard a slight subdued tone than just the single coils on their own but in series it usually beefs up and is kinda the opposite of the tone you're used to in series. But yeah, maybe something with the pups?

[GilmourD]

I don't really get why the series setting goes so dark on the Marr Jag. I have a push/pull pot setup on my Jazzmaster to allow it to kick in series in the middle position and it stays bright but with a lot more volume and range.

Depends on which harmonics are accentuated and which are canceled, and since Jag pickups and JM pickups have different harmonic content due to them both having differently sized sections of string within their magnetic fields, it's predictable that it'll be different. How it'll be different will require an oscilloscope. LOL

It's possible but I suspect something else is involved, possibly somewhere in the circuit? I have owned vintage, modern Danelectro's, Jerry Jone's that have the single coils in series stock, and I have added that mod to Strats, Tele's, and more recently my Jazzmaster. In parallel I've heard a slight subdued tone than just the single coils on their own but in series it usually beefs up and is kinda the opposite of the tone you're used to in series. But yeah, maybe something with the pups?

My other Jags aren't all that dissimilar in series. The only one I haven't wired up with a series option (yet, it's coming) is my purple Jag.

[B.T.]

My other Jags aren't all that dissimilar in series. The only one I haven't wired up with a series option (yet, it's coming) is my purple Jag.

Hey GilmourD, do all your Jags that have a series mod have that 56k resistor soldered on the tone pot?