Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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welshywelsh
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by welshywelsh » Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:27 am

tribi9 wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:21 pm
welshywelsh wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:42 am
Wow, that's hideous.

If you want to pay far too much for a non-Mustang, I'll accept £2000 for this ;D

Image
I had never realized how close the pickguard is to the edge of the body.
Think it's the shadow in my dark room, standard curve on it, but now you've said, it looks like it's hanging off the edge!

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by Wucan » Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:04 am

X-Ray Spex wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:01 am
I might be in the minority here but I really like everything BILT usually do.

Not a fan of the guitar versions of this model at all though, I think the thing that's putting me off isn't actually the body shape but just how ugly the headstock is with just bare maple and no painted swoosh!

However I do like the bass versions with the mudbuckers quite a lot.
Yeah I find Bilt's headstock off-putting in most cases and wish they'd try to adapt to the specific body at hand. It's like slapping a Starcaster neck into every offset body out there.

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by HarktheUmpire » Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:25 am

doctor_capleson wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 8:13 pm
I really do like the options and what one can create with their site, but as much as I'm sure I could create the perfect "never need another" guitar, I don't know that I could ever bond with it visually. They're also way out of my price range, and I don't know that I could ever take something that cost that much to a gig or on the road, ever.
I quite like how some of the Bilts look, and I like that the looks are partly up to you, even if this new model doesn't really work for me (and neither do trite comparisons to women's bodies).

About the price: it seems quite competitive to me. Just putting together a Relevator for fun, I end up in the $2300-2500 range, depending on specs. Not bad for a US-made guitar built to spec. Looking at a comparable guitar by Fender for that money; in Europe, an AVII Jazzmaster will cost the equivalent of $2500. If I got one, I'd still be spending another 110 GBP to get the Staytrem parts for it. Plus, the pickups are probably good, but they're not Lollar or Novaks. That would irk me. Having paid that much money, I'd want the best pickups and hardware I can find, which is what Bilt offer. Plus, with the AVII, you get the (to me) not particularly useful rhythm circuit. So I think those Bilt guitars actually have a lot going for them.

As for gigging with it... that's entirely up to you of course. Depends where you live and where you play shows I guess. I gig with a CBS-era Jag, which is my most valuable guitar by a great distance and probably worth twice what a Relevator would be (luckily, it doesn't look it). I'd definitely be nervous about gigging with a pre-CBS Fender, which is why I'm not particularly interested them anymore. But I would gig with a §2500 guitar, even if I'd keep an eye on it after the show.

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by javier-san » Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:54 am

JSett wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 9:34 pm
javier-san wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:02 pm
Oof. This one is poor taste. Are we supposed to interpret that Lizzo is the "worse" version of Beyonce? There is no reason to cut down Lizzo like that.
Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 3:27 pm
Yeah, I was gonna comment on that also. Maybe body shaming isn't the way to go when criticizing this guitar.
Dok wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:15 pm
Yeah, that absolutely sucks to see.
Your interpretation of me meaning 'worse' is an incorrect interpretation, that's on you, I just meant 'bigger'. But she definitely is 'worse' if you want to comment on her health and life-expectancy - that's an indisputable fact.

I did write an apology but, fuck it, it's a joke...lighten up a bit. Lizzo is fat, that's a fact, it's not 'body shaming'. Facts trump feelings. It must be utterly exhausting being so hyper-sensitive all the time ::) the pearl-clutching and virtue-signalling isn't a good look.

I'm technically obese but I won't stoop to glorify or celebrate it as it's not a healthy way to be. If she was a dangerously thin heroin addict everyone would be saying she's a terrible role-model - that's double standards and hypocritical. There's a reason it's classified as 'morbidly obese' in science and medicine...and that's because it can literally kill you.

I will still remove it, as I'm sorry if it was perceived as bad taste, but jorri was right...
jorri wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:13 pm
Can you really be surprised, if they called a guitar "Zaftig"? (See definition) Its obviously their intention.
...as their Zaftig line literally means "plump, full-bodied woman". Y'all need to lighten up.
Ah the classic "it's a joke, you're too sensitive, i'm sorry you feel that way".
I always felt that offsetguitars.com was better than most other online forums when it comes to this kind of stuff, but I've noticed that it's gotten more negative, more conservative and that it is starting to feel more like a "good old boy's club".

Also, we know Lizzo is fat, Lizzo knows she is fat, but have you seen the abuse she receives just for existing as a fat black women, especially from men?
This isn't pearl-clutching or virtue-signaling, it just calling you out for saying something whack. Stop using "woke" words to minimize it and just own up to it.

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by JSett » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:29 am

javier-san wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:54 am
I used no "woke" words (please, quote me and highlight where I did, supposedly) and I don't see why you have to bring her skin colour into this either. It's irrelevant.

And I'm not going to argue about it, it's a fucking meme dude...I'm not throwing acid in her face on the street.

You are being too sensitive. Grow up.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by javier-san » Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:58 am

JSett wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:29 am
javier-san wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 7:54 am
I used no "woke" words (please, quote me and highlight where I did, supposedly) and I don't see why you have to bring her skin colour into this either. It's irrelevant.

And I'm not going to argue about it, it's a fucking meme dude...I'm not throwing acid in her face on the street.

You are being too sensitive. Grow up.
People that don't want to own up to saying wack things say "virtue signaling and pearl clutching".
I'm not the one being defensive about being told "hey, that was a pretty wack thing to post".
You're spending more energy on that, instead of just owning up to it, but whatever, you're right I am too sensitive.
Let's just keep this good old boy's energy going!

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:08 am

JSett wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:05 am
*edited out bad taste meme for all the sensitive souls*
You know, I'm going to say this as gentle as I can, because I like you, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I hope I can defuse this situation somehow and not inflame it, so take what I'm saying with that in mind. I'm not trying to point fingers at you here because I can't in the first place, you haven't done anything I haven't done, so keep that in mind also.

The whole point was using Lizzo as a negative contrast, not that Lizzo is fat.

It's a thing I am trying to stop myself from doing. Fat shaming is pretty endemic and it has real life consequences for people and it hurts them and I don't want to be part of it. Kids hear adults refer to other people negatively by their weight and it makes the kids feel bad about themselves. You don't have to be the target of the derision.

Like a lot of things, I can't say I haven't been part of the hurt, but I try to be a better person. We all do: Lizzo used the word "spaz", got some criticism about it, realized she had used a potentially hurtful phrase and apologized for it. You learn and you grow.

This particular one is somewhat personal with me, though. My mother was overweight most of her life and she hated herself for it. American society teaches that. She spent her life going from fad diet to fad diet in an effort to lose weight and she never did. Diets don't work. They gave her drugs. Drugs don't work.

Ironically, she loved to cook, loved to eat. My father's house is still full of the hundreds of cookbooks she accumulated over the years.

To think that a person that loved cooking so much would be reduced to microwaving Lean Cuisine boxes in an effort to try and live with herself is as sad a thing as I can think of.

There's no happy ending here, she was agoraphobic, lacking confidence in all the wonderful things about her, and she died disliking the way she looked.

You talk about the negative health factors that being overweight brings, which are always vastly overstated anyway, but I can tell you that teaching people to hate themselves because of how their bodies look is far, far more dangerous. I've seen it pretty close up. I just loved my mom, you know? I didn't care if she was fat or what, and I wish she could have loved herself too.

Again, I'm not trying to make this a big deal, I'm just talking a little bit about my journey in life and why I felt a little dismay at what you wrote. But you didn't do anything intentionally hurtful and we all know that. I'm just calling a little attention to something.

Somewhere there's a little girl and she sees Lizzo and that little girl thinks, hey, if they accept Lizzo, maybe they'll accept me too. Celebrate that.

And let's hope the world has changed. To contrast Lizzo with another fat singer, when I was young, we were taught that Mama Cass had died by choking on a ham sandwich (she didn't). The implication was that she was so gluttonous that she couldn't safely eat a ham sandwich without it leading to her own destruction, or maybe the lesson was that she should not have been eating the ham sandwich at all considering how fat she was. No way to have sympathy for a person that fat and stupid, you know? A person that lacking in self control is a person that deserves no respect or dignity.

This is the world I was brought up in, one in which it is considered OK to say cruel and hateful things to fat people because "it's for their own good". But it's not. It's just hurtful and teaches people to hate themselves.

Incidentally there is an excellent podcast about this subject called Maintenance Phase, I'd recommend it to anyone.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by javier-san » Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:19 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:08 am
JSett wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 6:05 am
*edited out bad taste meme for all the sensitive souls*
You know, I'm going to say this as gentle as I can, because I like you, and I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I hope I can defuse this situation somehow and not inflame it, so take what I'm saying with that in mind. I'm not trying to point fingers at you here because I can't in the first place, you haven't done anything I haven't done, so keep that in mind also.

The whole point was using Lizzo as a negative contrast, not that Lizzo is fat.

It's a thing I am trying to stop myself from doing. Fat shaming is pretty endemic and it has real life consequences for people and it hurts them and I don't want to be part of it. Kids hear adults refer to other people negatively by their weight and it makes the kids feel bad about themselves. You don't have to be the target of the derision.

Like a lot of things, I can't say I haven't been part of the hurt, but I try to be a better person. We all do: Lizzo used the word "spaz", got some criticism about it, realized she had used a potentially hurtful phrase and apologized for it. You learn and you grow.

This particular one is somewhat personal with me, though. My mother was overweight most of her life and she hated herself for it. American society teaches that. She spent her life going from fad diet to fad diet in an effort to lose weight and she never did. Diets don't work. They gave her drugs. Drugs don't work.

Ironically, she loved to cook, loved to eat. My father's house is still full of the hundreds of cookbooks she accumulated over the years.

To think that a person that loved cooking so much would be reduced to microwaving Lean Cuisine boxes in an effort to try and live with herself is as sad a thing as I can think of.

There's no happy ending here, she was agoraphobic, lacking confidence in all the wonderful things about her, and she died disliking the way she looked.

You talk about the negative health factors that being overweight brings, which are always vastly overstated anyway, but I can tell you that teaching people to hate themselves because of how their bodies look is far, far more dangerous. I've seen it pretty close up. I just loved my mom, you know? I didn't care if she was fat or what, and I wish she could have loved herself too.

Again, I'm not trying to make this a big deal, I'm just talking a little bit about my journey in life and why I felt a little dismay at what you wrote. But you didn't do anything intentionally hurtful and we all know that. I'm just calling a little attention to something.

Somewhere there's a little girl and she sees Lizzo and that little girl thinks, hey, if they accept Lizzo, maybe they'll accept me too. Celebrate that.

And let's hope the world has changed. To contrast Lizzo with another fat singer, when I was young, we were taught that Mama Cass had died by choking on a ham sandwich (she didn't). The implication was that she was so gluttonous that she couldn't safely eat a ham sandwich without it leading to her own destruction, or maybe the lesson was that she should not have been eating the ham sandwich at all considering how fat she was. No way to have sympathy for a person that fat and stupid, you know? A person that lacking in self control is a person that deserves no respect or dignity.

This is the world I was brought up in, one in which it is considered OK to say cruel and hateful things to fat people because "it's for their own good". But it's not. It's just hurtful and teaches people to hate themselves.

Incidentally there is an excellent podcast about this subject called Maintenance Phase, I'd recommend it to anyone.
This was beautifully said/written. Wow, thank you for sharing that.

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by JSett » Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:29 am

javier-san wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:58 am
People that don't want to own up to saying wack things say "virtue signaling and pearl clutching".
I'm not the one being defensive about being told "hey, that was a pretty wack thing to post".
You're spending more energy on that, instead of just owning up to it, but whatever, you're right I am too sensitive.
Let's just keep this good old boy's energy going!
"Pearl Clutching" is literally the correct English term for what you are doing:
someone who is easily offended or shocked by things the person perceives as vulgar, in bad taste, or morally wrong
As is "virtue signalling":
virtue signalling: the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Or are we just ignoring how English works now too? Probably part of the current Campus Kool-Aid Curriculum where facts no longer matter. I'm not even an old man (40), a staunch liberal, but I can see the next generations fucking eating themselves seemingly in a contest to see who can be the stupidest. There's even some fucking morons arguing that MATH IS RACIST now. Fucking MATH! It's literally numbers :fp: :fp:

I'm done trying to converse on this with you, you've dug your heels in so deep you'll twist your ankle.

*************
Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:08 am
I get what you're saying Larry, and I appreciate the time it took to write and relay your personal experiences. No one with a soul wants others to live a painful existence or self-contempt, myself included. My mother has fought a similar battle most of her life, but she's under no illusion that the real way to fix her personal obesity is literally to burn more calories than she takes in, the diets don't work, just eating healthy and exercising more.

I eat terribly, barely exercise, and I'm overweight (technically obese according to the Doctor) but I'm too fat and lazy and love food too much to do anything about it - and I'm cool with that. If someone called me fat I'd likely respond with "Excellent observational skills" followed by a laugh because they're just words and I'm of strong enough character to not concern myself with that sort of thing. "Sticks & Stones..."

I agree that Lizzo is a good example to young kids that you can achieve regardless of size/weight BUT she also has the unfortunate side-effect of glorifying an unhealthy lifestyle. We should be looking to reduce the amount of people that are so large it affects their health (minor or major) for the good of themselves and the healthcare system. If a young girl (or boy) thinks it's okay to choose fries over salad every time because "Lizzo is doing fine" then that's not a good thing. We need to stop feeding kids desserts for breakfast and make them walk to school again.

*************

Anyway, I think this horse has well and truly been beaten to death now. I think we all know where each other stands.

FWIW it's a very British trait to use edgy/offensive/self-deprecating humour, it's part of my cultural heritage, we do things very differently here - maybe that's where things are rubbing against each other wrong.
Last edited by JSett on Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by X-Ray Spex » Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:34 am

Wucan wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 6:04 am
X-Ray Spex wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 4:01 am
I might be in the minority here but I really like everything BILT usually do.

Not a fan of the guitar versions of this model at all though, I think the thing that's putting me off isn't actually the body shape but just how ugly the headstock is with just bare maple and no painted swoosh!

However I do like the bass versions with the mudbuckers quite a lot.
Yeah I find Bilt's headstock off-putting in most cases and wish they'd try to adapt to the specific body at hand. It's like slapping a Starcaster neck into every offset body out there.
To clarify I think the Starcaster headstock is gorgeous and goes with quite a lot of different body styles, it just looks weird and naked if the swoosh isn't painted in some way.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by shoegaze_head » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:01 am

BoringPostcards wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:47 pm
Mustang is just as offset as the JM/Jag, as offset refers to the waist alone, and the Mustang has the same degree offset in its waistline.
Yeah I know that, but it doesn't have the parallelogram shape of the jm/jag which I feel like accentuates the fact that its offset

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by BoringPostcards » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:03 am

shoegaze_head wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:01 am
BoringPostcards wrote:
Fri Mar 17, 2023 1:47 pm
Mustang is just as offset as the JM/Jag, as offset refers to the waist alone, and the Mustang has the same degree offset in its waistline.
Yeah I know that, but it doesn't have the parallelogram shape of the jm/jag which I feel like accentuates the fact that its offset
Oh, ok. I see what you mean.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by javier-san » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:27 am

JSett wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 10:29 am
javier-san wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 8:58 am
People that don't want to own up to saying wack things say "virtue signaling and pearl clutching".
I'm not the one being defensive about being told "hey, that was a pretty wack thing to post".
You're spending more energy on that, instead of just owning up to it, but whatever, you're right I am too sensitive.
Let's just keep this good old boy's energy going!
"Pearl Clutching" is literally the correct English term for what you are doing:
someone who is easily offended or shocked by things the person perceives as vulgar, in bad taste, or morally wrong
As is "virtue signalling":
virtue signalling: the public expression of opinions or sentiments intended to demonstrate one's good character or social conscience or the moral correctness of one's position on a particular issue.
Or are we just ignoring how English works now too? Probably part of the current Campus Kool-Aid Curriculum where facts no longer matter. I'm not even an old man (40), a staunch liberal, but I can see the next generations fucking eating themselves seemingly in a contest to see who can be the stupidest. There's even some fucking morons arguing that MATH IS RACIST now. Fucking MATH! It's literally numbers :fp: :fp:

I'm done trying to converse on this with you, you've dug your heels in so deep you'll twist your ankle.

To be fair, you've done your dug your heels as much as me or more. All I was saying it was poor taste and maybe be more mindful about what you post? Never said you are a bad person, but you posted something wack. That's it. You've chosen to respond the way you did and that's that.

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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by JSett » Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:39 am

javier-san wrote:
Sat Mar 18, 2023 11:27 am
To be fair, you've done your dug your heels as much as me or more. All I was saying it was poor taste and maybe be more mindful about what you post? Never said you are a bad person, but you posted something wack. That's it. You've chosen to respond the way you did and that's that.
True, I am a stubborn bastard I'll admit that. I am also knowingly apathetic to most people, and myself - I don't really find anything offensive.

Let's just move on.
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Re: Bilt guitars gets into Mustang game

Post by JVG » Sat Mar 18, 2023 1:02 pm

To quote the famous philosopher R. Burgundy, “that escalated quickly”.

Moving along, i agree with the general consensus that this guitar is pretty fucking ugly. The body doesn’t make sense and the headstock doesn’t work for me either. Never was a Starcaster fan.
I guess they will sell a few but I’m surprised they bothered. On the upside, it’s marginally less ugly than a JagStang.

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