AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
- Delukin
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AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I recently purchased an AO 60's Jazzmaster and absolutely love the thing - but owning it feels like it what I would imagine dating a super model would be like: beautiful to look at and feels amazing, but comes with LOTS of baggage! I've been a Tele player for 20 years, so this was a big change for me because you can chop wood with a Tele and it will stay in tune.
Anyway, I mitigated some bridge buzzing and string slipping with a shim and proper adjustment but one issue has been bothering me for a while. The tremolo arm just doesn't go in all the way and when I apply force, it won't come out easily. It will go in about a half inch but sits WAY too high. I've read lots of posts on this board and others about similar issues - with advice ranging from "push harder" to "get a new trem arm because fender sometimes includes the wrong one."
I decided I was going to purchased the "correct" trem arm and trem arm sleeve from Fender and really push it in there to finally resolve the issue. I ordered:
American Original Jaguar®/Jazzmaster® Tremolo Arm Sleeve
Model #: 0054471049
American Vintage Jaguar®/Jazzmaster® Tremolo Arm
Model #: 0054473049
After replacing the Sleeve and attempting to push the Arm in I experienced the same result. Something is definitely not right with the "correct" Arm because no matter how much pressure you apply (and I used a LOT of force, to the point where I had to take the assembly apart, remove the Sleeve and WD-40 the heck out of it to remove the Arm, which had only gone in about a half inch). It's almost as if the chrome plating at the bottom of the arm is causing the issue but I'm skeptical of that because there just doesn't seem to be any amount of force that is going to get it to sit as low as it should.
I contacted Fender, who confirmed that I had purchased the correct parts and said since the guitar is still under warranty that I should take it to an approved shop to look it over. I'll update anyone who is interested in the result, but I wanted to post here because this issue seems to fall within the range of the "push harder" and "wrong trem arm" camps. I am also posting because there is a chance that I am doing something wrong - I mean what are the odds that TWO trem arms and two sleeves wouldn't behave the way they should? Any input/advice is appreciated.
For context, here is how low the trem arm should fit in the sleeve:
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZQZ9
And here is my new trem arm in my old sleeve (the old trem arm in the new sleeve does the same thing). After MUCH pushing (you can see the score marks that were present when I removed it after pushing it in as hard as I could):
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZ5xH
Anyway, I mitigated some bridge buzzing and string slipping with a shim and proper adjustment but one issue has been bothering me for a while. The tremolo arm just doesn't go in all the way and when I apply force, it won't come out easily. It will go in about a half inch but sits WAY too high. I've read lots of posts on this board and others about similar issues - with advice ranging from "push harder" to "get a new trem arm because fender sometimes includes the wrong one."
I decided I was going to purchased the "correct" trem arm and trem arm sleeve from Fender and really push it in there to finally resolve the issue. I ordered:
American Original Jaguar®/Jazzmaster® Tremolo Arm Sleeve
Model #: 0054471049
American Vintage Jaguar®/Jazzmaster® Tremolo Arm
Model #: 0054473049
After replacing the Sleeve and attempting to push the Arm in I experienced the same result. Something is definitely not right with the "correct" Arm because no matter how much pressure you apply (and I used a LOT of force, to the point where I had to take the assembly apart, remove the Sleeve and WD-40 the heck out of it to remove the Arm, which had only gone in about a half inch). It's almost as if the chrome plating at the bottom of the arm is causing the issue but I'm skeptical of that because there just doesn't seem to be any amount of force that is going to get it to sit as low as it should.
I contacted Fender, who confirmed that I had purchased the correct parts and said since the guitar is still under warranty that I should take it to an approved shop to look it over. I'll update anyone who is interested in the result, but I wanted to post here because this issue seems to fall within the range of the "push harder" and "wrong trem arm" camps. I am also posting because there is a chance that I am doing something wrong - I mean what are the odds that TWO trem arms and two sleeves wouldn't behave the way they should? Any input/advice is appreciated.
For context, here is how low the trem arm should fit in the sleeve:
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZQZ9
And here is my new trem arm in my old sleeve (the old trem arm in the new sleeve does the same thing). After MUCH pushing (you can see the score marks that were present when I removed it after pushing it in as hard as I could):
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZ5xH
Last edited by Delukin on Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:41 am, edited 2 times in total.
- sal paradise
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
My friend is a model & he doesn’t actually own that many clothes. Everything is short term loan.
Not sure if that helps solve the vibrato arm issue though.
Not sure if that helps solve the vibrato arm issue though.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?
- ldp54002
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I've run into that same issue twice recently.
First was a used AO60s Jag that I bought from the original owner. He confirmed it was 100% stock and as it came from the factory, but the trem arm does not fit without a ton of force. Even then it still sticks up further than it should. I can live with it, but I don't like that it happened.
Second was a AVRI trem kit that I purchased to upgrade another guitar. It was the "matched" set with tailpiece and arm in one package. That one, the fit was so bad that once the arm was in the collet, it took an application of extreme heat to separate them again. It ended up slightly melting the arm and deforming it, so I cut my losses.
I've also seen others reporting arm fitment issues with AVRI offset trems as well.
First was a used AO60s Jag that I bought from the original owner. He confirmed it was 100% stock and as it came from the factory, but the trem arm does not fit without a ton of force. Even then it still sticks up further than it should. I can live with it, but I don't like that it happened.
Second was a AVRI trem kit that I purchased to upgrade another guitar. It was the "matched" set with tailpiece and arm in one package. That one, the fit was so bad that once the arm was in the collet, it took an application of extreme heat to separate them again. It ended up slightly melting the arm and deforming it, so I cut my losses.
I've also seen others reporting arm fitment issues with AVRI offset trems as well.
- Delukin
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I was thinking I could live with it as well. But it sticks up way too high to close the case with it in (as I've heard is recommended) and it requires so much force to get it out that I actually unscrewed the sleeve from the tremolo base with all of the twisting and pulling I was doing to pull the arm from the sleeve.ldp54002 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:50 amFirst was a used AO60s Jag that I bought from the original owner. He confirmed it was 100% stock and as it came from the factory, but the trem arm does not fit without a ton of force. Even then it still sticks up further than it should. I can live with it, but I don't like that it happened.
- MayTheFuzzBeWithYou
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
Not related to AO vibrato systems - but I once bent my own arm(s - for me and a friend) for a Japanese vibrato out of a M5 rod - and they were also sitting very far from the body - which also meant increased radius of action! Which I enjoyed quite a bit.Delukin wrote: ↑Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:47 am
I was thinking I could live with it as well. But it sticks up way too high to close the case with it in (as I've heard is recommended) and it requires so much force to get it out that I actually unscrewed the sleeve from the tremolo base with all of the twisting and pulling I was doing to pull the arm from the sleeve.
Edit: because I‘ve just watched the pic afterwards… no, this is really is pushed in too little. Needs to stick out on the other hand…
- Delukin
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
To close the loop on this whole fiasco:
I took my JM to an authorized Fender repair shop. They couldn't get the new arm into the old sleeve, or the old arm into the new sleeve either. After trying a lot of different options the tech (who is also the owner of the shop) decided to just drill out both sleeves. Now the arm goes in as it should and appears to work as expected. His guess is that it has something to do with the super tight manufacturing tolerances in those sleeves.
I'm not sure if it has something to do with using parts made for "Vintage re-issues" but the tech said he has never seen anything like it. Fender really needs to figure this out. I'm hoping the fix works long-term, but I won't be cancelling my StayTrem order yet in case it doesn't.
Again, I'm hoping this helps someone else having similar issues and finds themselves between "push harder" and "wrong part." Thankfully, my JM was still under warranty, so no cost to me. I still think the fix was a big hacky and not something that someone should have to do to a brand new guitar.
Here is the final result:
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZQUQ
I took my JM to an authorized Fender repair shop. They couldn't get the new arm into the old sleeve, or the old arm into the new sleeve either. After trying a lot of different options the tech (who is also the owner of the shop) decided to just drill out both sleeves. Now the arm goes in as it should and appears to work as expected. His guess is that it has something to do with the super tight manufacturing tolerances in those sleeves.
I'm not sure if it has something to do with using parts made for "Vintage re-issues" but the tech said he has never seen anything like it. Fender really needs to figure this out. I'm hoping the fix works long-term, but I won't be cancelling my StayTrem order yet in case it doesn't.
Again, I'm hoping this helps someone else having similar issues and finds themselves between "push harder" and "wrong part." Thankfully, my JM was still under warranty, so no cost to me. I still think the fix was a big hacky and not something that someone should have to do to a brand new guitar.
Here is the final result:
https://flic.kr/p/2ogZQUQ
- Powdered Toast Man
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
That's what mine looks like.
- Thom_bjork
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
Thanks for sharing your process.
I just went through the same process with a very slightly used, all-original AO JM. The arm that was included would not go in more than a 1/4"-1/2". Once there, it was almost impossible to pull out. I had to use more force than I've ever had to use on an instrument before, which was a bit concerning.
I figured that the seller must've mistakenly included the wrong arm and ordered a replacement AVRI arm. The new one also takes an incredible amount of force to insert or remove, but I was able to fully insert it. Now it's functional and has the normal vibrato range, but it's difficult to swing in or out of playing position. Very stiff. Kevin Shields would not approve haha.
So, now I'm left wondering if I should try a different arm/collet or if I should modify it somehow. Although, I get the impression the previous owner didn't use the vibrato much or at all, so maybe it'll improve with use.
I just went through the same process with a very slightly used, all-original AO JM. The arm that was included would not go in more than a 1/4"-1/2". Once there, it was almost impossible to pull out. I had to use more force than I've ever had to use on an instrument before, which was a bit concerning.
I figured that the seller must've mistakenly included the wrong arm and ordered a replacement AVRI arm. The new one also takes an incredible amount of force to insert or remove, but I was able to fully insert it. Now it's functional and has the normal vibrato range, but it's difficult to swing in or out of playing position. Very stiff. Kevin Shields would not approve haha.
So, now I'm left wondering if I should try a different arm/collet or if I should modify it somehow. Although, I get the impression the previous owner didn't use the vibrato much or at all, so maybe it'll improve with use.
- GreenKnee
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I've found that lubricating the part of the arm that goes in to the collet aids with insertion and removal, it'll probably help with moving the arm out of position too. The collect can be adjusted, gently, to either tighten up the rotation of the arm or make it easier.
- superficial
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
It could be that the arm has been (intentionally) bent slightly. I did this to mine precisely so it would stay where I left it rather than dangle down all the time.I figured that the seller must've mistakenly included the wrong arm and ordered a replacement AVRI arm. The new one also takes an incredible amount of force to insert or remove, but I was able to fully insert it. Now it's functional and has the normal vibrato range, but it's difficult to swing in or out of playing position. Very stiff. Kevin Shields would not approve haha.
You just take the arm out, hold it securely and whack it with a rubber mallet until it's got a slight bend. It's a tiny bend you need, very difficult to see with the naked eye so unless you're looking very closely you wouldn't necessarily notice. As a side effect, mine is very hard to remove, but I suspect one might be able to put a more modest bend so as not to affect removal. It'd probably be difficult to get it straight again but a new arm would restore it back to the wobbly factory spec.
Puisheen on Youtube
EDIT: You already tried a new arm. Sorry I missed that in your post! Perhaps the collet splines have been modified with the same intention?
- Thom_bjork
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
Yeah, they're both 'new' arms, since even the original was untouched and the new one is actually new. Both unbent. I appreciate the suggestion though. The first arm was too wide by an imperceptible amount. The new one is only slightly better, but allows for insertion.
I'm hesitant to bend the collet apart cause the opposite scenario, a fully loose arm, is also not ideal. That may be what I end up doing though. What kind of lubricant have you used on the collet? That's a good first step. Ideally, it'll stay where I put it, but also allow for easy movement. All of my other vibratos and trems are like that. This factory incompatible situation is a new one for me!
Side note: Mike Adams seems to be a great resource and is an entertaining guy. Pretty cool that he's worked on Deep Sea Diver's gear and guested with them recently. Such a great band.
I'm hesitant to bend the collet apart cause the opposite scenario, a fully loose arm, is also not ideal. That may be what I end up doing though. What kind of lubricant have you used on the collet? That's a good first step. Ideally, it'll stay where I put it, but also allow for easy movement. All of my other vibratos and trems are like that. This factory incompatible situation is a new one for me!
Side note: Mike Adams seems to be a great resource and is an entertaining guy. Pretty cool that he's worked on Deep Sea Diver's gear and guested with them recently. Such a great band.
- GreenKnee
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I use Superlube, made by Loctite. You get a good sized tube for not much cost and it'll last a lifetime for most people as only a little bit is needed.
I actually used it on 2 vibrato arms recently for pushing them back in and it made it a lot easier. The amount of force required can be quite disconcerting but the lube helps
- Mondaysoutar
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I apply a wee bit of Vaseline on the end of the arm every so often man.
- Thom_bjork
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
Thanks for the suggestions! I'll give that a go.
- jazzyjeff
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Re: AO 60's Jazzmaster Tremolo (non) Fit
I put a StayTrem arm and collet in mine and it's been plain sailing ever since. The little plastic in the sleeve holds the arm where you want it without swinging all over the place with a screw in or push in. I've put one in on every offset I've ever owned. Thank god for Johnny Marr!