There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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JSett
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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by JSett » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:32 am

mekhem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:11 am
If the new offsets are $2400-$2500... You are saying that the buy new price of the AVRI 62 in 2008 was $1200?
Yeah, they were about £1300 here in the UK back then IIRC
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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by vistavision » Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:39 am

MrShake wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 10:55 am
mekhem wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:11 am
MrShake wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:06 pm

These new price indicators are making my eyes bleed. I'm not saying whether they're worth it or not, just that prices on "top tier" off-the-rack US-made Fenders has doubled - DOUBLED - since then.
If the new offsets are $2400-$2500... You are saying that the buy new price of the AVRI 62 in 2008 was $1200?
I'm not sure what the standard retail price was everywhere, but I got mine at GC for $1300, I believe. There wasn't any particular sale, though I think a sales rep may have found a price match discount or something from another retailer, but yeah, ordered new at the store, then shipped direct to me. I remember because it's easily the most I've ever spent on a piece of gear, probably twice over.

And naturally, I wouldn't expect them to stay that price forever. It just seems like a rather drastic increase, even accounting for inflation, but again, people said the AV65 were a step up, so I guess I'd presume these new ones to be that AV quality.

That said, I've never played one I preferred to my '62 AVRI, but that's just subjective, I think the pickups weren't for me.
The Fender 2008 pricelist has an AVRI 62' Jag with an MSRP of $1999 and a JM at $2049. Soooo, the MAP/Street Price would have been $1399 and $1449 respectively.
Yes, someone could buy an AVRI offset at GC in 2008 for $1300, if GC was just trying to get it out the door. Dealer cost would've been ~$1000 so they made money on it.
I'm sure some Fender dealer in '64 looked at the new Duo-Sonic II and thought, "That's not a Duo-Sonic. That's a Mustang".

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by MrShake » Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:08 pm

vistavision wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 11:39 am
The Fender 2008 pricelist has an AVRI 62' Jag with an MSRP of $1999 and a JM at $2049. Soooo, the MAP/Street Price would have been $1399 and $1449 respectively.
Yes, someone could buy an AVRI offset at GC in 2008 for $1300, if GC was just trying to get it out the door. Dealer cost would've been ~$1000 so they made money on it.
That seems fair. And not to be pedantic, but they were probably just happy to slam-dunk a sale out the door, it wasn't actually in-store. My wife reminded me that it may have shipped direct from Fender? There was something confusing about that that's lost to the haze of memory. But that price is pretty vivid.

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by smjenkins » Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:15 pm

I just googled "$1300 usd in 1999 vs today" and the answer was $2311. It seems like the reason this new price sucks is mostly inflation. You can blame that on whomever you'd like. I'm choosing to blame whoever spec'd the wrong size headstock for a '66. :)

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Embenny » Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:27 pm

smjenkins wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:15 pm
I just googled "$1300 usd in 1999 vs today" and the answer was $2311. It seems like the reason this new price sucks is mostly inflation. You can blame that on whomever you'd like. I'm choosing to blame whoever spec'd the wrong size headstock for a '66. :)
They're talking about 2008 though, not 1999. Inflation has been 40%, but current prices are 40% above that.
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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by MrShake » Fri Sep 30, 2022 5:13 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:27 pm
smjenkins wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:15 pm
I just googled "$1300 usd in 1999 vs today" and the answer was $2311. It seems like the reason this new price sucks is mostly inflation. You can blame that on whomever you'd like. I'm choosing to blame whoever spec'd the wrong size headstock for a '66. :)
They're talking about 2008 though, not 1999. Inflation has been 40%, but current prices are 40% above that.
I mean, for what it's worth, yeah, it was 2008, and $1300 2008 dollars comes up as a little under $1800 in 2022. That's still roughly a $500 gap.

I'm not drawing a cause though, other than to say inflation doesn't seem like the only one, though, sure, it's a big factor. I dunno pricing history, but maybe sticker prices had been stagnant for a while and that was just a good moment in time to pick one up at older MAP/retail price, I don't know.

I don't want to get sidetracked, these seem like great new guitars, different than mine, in a much different offset market. It just seems like there's an extra premium for US made than there was back then, maybe because there are so many more (big quotation marks here) "mid-priced" imported models with greater profit margins now.
Last edited by MrShake on Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by mekhem » Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:20 pm

I think the cost gap is similar or the same adjust for inflation and the additional profit taking due to the pandemic.

But agreed - I think this is an interesting line up (sans the never ending 52 tele's). I am very much looking forward to the pickup reviews on the Jazzmaster and what the 72 thinline.

After the release of the PV line there was some fender talk of rotating the colors every 2 years or so but that faded out pretty fast - I hope they have the stones to do that for this line...

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Pacafeliz » Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:51 pm

Vintage offsets went from 3-digit to 5-digit prices SO FAST.
Just look at some old threads here on the OSG. Duo sonics and Music masters were changing hands for ~$500 or less!
I know everything has gotten so much more expensive, and that $1 isn't the same as when we were kids. But still...
Oh man.

Hold on to yer old guitars, folks!
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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by JSett » Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:09 pm

Inflation isn't the only factor in play and many people get hung up on the fact that some things are priced higher than inflation would predict. Building materials are through the roof, shipping costs have tripled (or more) for containers, workers need paying more because other factors (like housing, food, general cost of living, etc) have skyrocketed.

Inflation alone isn't a good guide anymore. In fact, for luxury goods - which is what guitars are - it's basically irrelevant in the equation. What is the main component in building a guitar? Well, it's wood right? Here's the lumber prices since 2008 as a visual representation of why, in the last three years, prices of new guitars may have shot up. It's worth noting that the direction this graph goes is pretty much across the board for woods, metals, plastics, wire, shipping....

Image
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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by redchapterjubilee » Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:00 am

The buy new price for the AVRI JM in 2008 was $1600. By 2010 the boring black, white, 3TSB was $1400-$1500 (it fluctuated) and they were closed out in 2012 for $1250-$1350 depending on color (my white 2012 JM was $1225 from Musicians Friend). Considering these new prices this is why you could sometimes find used AVRI’s around $900. Heh, not anymore.

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:29 pm

Picks of the LPB dickhead yet?

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by muffonrat » Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:05 am

Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:29 pm
Picks of the LPB dickhead yet?
Been checking on this thread just to take a peek to this colour.
By the way is there any official webpage with the new releases?

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by simonhpieman » Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:25 am

I wouldn't put my mortgage on it (I can't afford a house anyway!!) but I bought a brand new, Custom Shop Gibson ES-330L from Guitar Village (a notoriously expensive UK shop) for £1600 in 2009 and they had a wall full of thin skins that I tried a Big Muff through that day which I'm pretty sure were £1499.

Oh to be sat in that situation again right now...

These new AV prices seem high to me but I'm old. I picked up a used AVRI Jag about 7 years ago for £750 which admittedly was a great deal at the time but I don't know if I'd ever pay 3x that for a new one, even if the 72 Thinline is calling my name very, very loudly!

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by mekhem » Sun Oct 02, 2022 6:01 am

muffonrat wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 12:05 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Oct 01, 2022 4:29 pm
Picks of the LPB dickhead yet?
Been checking on this thread just to take a peek to this colour.
By the way is there any official webpage with the new releases?
Tuesday Oct 4 - is the rumored release date But some may slip into monday

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Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by JSett » Sun Oct 02, 2022 7:17 am

simonhpieman wrote:
Sun Oct 02, 2022 2:25 am
even if the 72 Thinline is calling my name very, very loudly!
Well, if you need to make space...my interest in your '70 still stands ;) ;)
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

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