There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
Post Reply
User avatar
algeriet
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:29 am
Location: Tibro, Sweden

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by algeriet » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:50 am

Mechanical Birds wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:11 am
Right but like, what else is it supposed to be? The AOs were pretty much the same as the AV ones with a few small differences. I just don’t know what they could have done all that differently with these things.
If I need to be crass, the AO line was a streamlined version of the AV series where they minimised the amount of models as well as details. For example the AV56 Strat was amazing and had an incredible neck, but the different 50's models were simply lumped into the AO50s, one single model (that also had a 9.5" radius for mainstream appeal).

What it's supposed to be, if they were to be true to the AV line of '12-'17 that they're trying to bank on, would have the correct headstock shape, no Trump shade of orange tint on the neck, the old school style decal as on the AVs, and imo preferably F tuners, but Klusons were still being used in '66 so they get the OK on that one. I feel like I am repeating myself a lot now, so basically they went 90% there, and I think that's lame, end of story.

With that said, and many will realise the irony, is that when I had a custom Deep Seat Guitars Silverburst B&B Jazzmaster built, I specifically asked for the smaller headstock as it was a CUSTOM (read: fantasy) build, whereas Fender are trying to promote a 1966 reissue with specs that aren't totally true for a '66. So I don't aesthetically think it's bad necessarily, just not impressed with the level of quality Fender are offering at 2599€.

Lastly, my 58ri from 2018, the limited edition two tone sunburst one with the anodized guard, that one was clearly built during the same period as the AO line, but its details are much closer to the level of standard on the AV line, so this isn't about them not being able to do the research, it's simply them saving money. Remember when FMIC's CEO said that his collection of 60's offsets are bad guitars or whatever? Just because ol' man dunno how to setup the guitars? Or how Fender keep on saying in videos that they've "righted Leo's mistakes" etc because they've put on Mustang bridges instead? How they've been doing skunk stripes and incorrect block shapes for years, forward positioned vibratos on Jazzmasters, etc etc. They just don't give a shit and the public clearly do not either and continue to buy their stuff.
graceless wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:49 am
i can assure you that the design team is having a good laugh while they sit around a table because they know that no matter fkn what, the measurebators and 'purists' are never going to be happy because the goalposts are always going to move. finally got the b&b right? well the radius is wrong! finally got the radius right? well the color of the wiring is wrong! got the wiring right? the headstock is the wrong size!
If you ask me, it's the opposite: the design team were like "well uh, what if we just added blocks? I mean no one'd notice the wrong headstock anyway. Amirite or am I right, team? Aye lmaoooooo, bump it brother, get some!"

I've said my thoughts, hoping the LPB one turns out sick nonetheless, who cares what some dogmatic, orthodox vintage masturbator on the internet thinks anyways, y'all have a good day, peace and prosperity to you all. 🙏 Long live Leo Fender!

User avatar
Pacafeliz
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 18556
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:34 pm
Location: Cococologne, Germany

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Pacafeliz » Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:51 am

Dakota Red B&B Jazzy looks perfect :-*

...the price doesn't :(
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

User avatar
algeriet
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:29 am
Location: Tibro, Sweden

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by algeriet » Wed Sep 28, 2022 3:00 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:51 am
Dakota Red B&B Jazzy looks perfect :-*

...the price doesn't :(
Yeah I gave about 1000€ less for my AV65 new back in 2017 so things definitely have changed.
johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:36 am
No cheap shot at all, I meant it in all seriousness. We ALL know MB's ultimate dream is a LPB B&B Jaguar just like the picture. Rather than waiting and forever compromising maybe the best way is to Custom Shop one. It's cheaper than a vintage (certainly these days) and it can be exactly what he wants. That's one of the things the CS is there for!
Hot tip: Abernethy has done a few ghost builds that are exact replicas, slide into his DMs on Instagram. They're cheaper as well, but ya didn't hear it from me! :ph34r:

User avatar
rbrcbr
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 763
Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2015 10:11 am
Location: Brooklyn

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by rbrcbr » Wed Sep 28, 2022 4:34 am

Eh, I’m excited regardless. Not like I can afford a real ‘66 anyway, in this market.

I understand the desire for ~accurate spec~ But aren’t the F tuners considered to be complete dogshit compared to Klusons? Like aesthetically I get the appeal I guess but functionally I’d way rather have Klusons than F tuners even if it’s not “accurate”.

I’m sure these days the internals are probably not all that different so who knows if it would make a difference.

User avatar
Powdered Toast Man
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 297
Joined: Mon Nov 30, 2020 5:56 pm
Location: Canaduh

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Powdered Toast Man » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:39 am

algeriet wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:50 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 2:11 am
Right but like, what else is it supposed to be? The AOs were pretty much the same as the AV ones with a few small differences. I just don’t know what they could have done all that differently with these things.
If I need to be crass, the AO line was a streamlined version of the AV series where they minimised the amount of models as well as details. For example the AV56 Strat was amazing and had an incredible neck, but the different 50's models were simply lumped into the AO50s, one single model (that also had a 9.5" radius for mainstream appeal).

What it's supposed to be, if they were to be true to the AV line of '12-'17 that they're trying to bank on, would have the correct headstock shape, no Trump shade of orange tint on the neck, the old school style decal as on the AVs, and imo preferably F tuners, but Klusons were still being used in '66 so they get the OK on that one. I feel like I am repeating myself a lot now, so basically they went 90% there, and I think that's lame, end of story.

With that said, and many will realise the irony, is that when I had a custom Deep Seat Guitars Silverburst B&B Jazzmaster built, I specifically asked for the smaller headstock as it was a CUSTOM (read: fantasy) build, whereas Fender are trying to promote a 1966 reissue with specs that aren't totally true for a '66. So I don't aesthetically think it's bad necessarily, just not impressed with the level of quality Fender are offering at 2599€.

Lastly, my 58ri from 2018, the limited edition two tone sunburst one with the anodized guard, that one was clearly built during the same period as the AO line, but its details are much closer to the level of standard on the AV line, so this isn't about them not being able to do the research, it's simply them saving money. Remember when FMIC's CEO said that his collection of 60's offsets are bad guitars or whatever? Just because ol' man dunno how to setup the guitars? Or how Fender keep on saying in videos that they've "righted Leo's mistakes" etc because they've put on Mustang bridges instead? How they've been doing skunk stripes and incorrect block shapes for years, forward positioned vibratos on Jazzmasters, etc etc. They just don't give a shit and the public clearly do not either and continue to buy their stuff.
graceless wrote:
Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:49 am
i can assure you that the design team is having a good laugh while they sit around a table because they know that no matter fkn what, the measurebators and 'purists' are never going to be happy because the goalposts are always going to move. finally got the b&b right? well the radius is wrong! finally got the radius right? well the color of the wiring is wrong! got the wiring right? the headstock is the wrong size!
If you ask me, it's the opposite: the design team were like "well uh, what if we just added blocks? I mean no one'd notice the wrong headstock anyway. Amirite or am I right, team? Aye lmaoooooo, bump it brother, get some!"

I've said my thoughts, hoping the LPB one turns out sick nonetheless, who cares what some dogmatic, orthodox vintage masturbator on the internet thinks anyways, y'all have a good day, peace and prosperity to you all. 🙏 Long live Leo Fender!
From all your whining it doesn't seem like ANYTHING will satisfy you. So why don't you just go buy actual vintage guitars and quit complaining that new materials, production methods, and interpretations of 60 year old instruments aren't the exact same thing as they were in an era that lasted for less than 10 years total back in the day.

The AO's are the finest production guitars I've laid hands on. They're not vintage accurate because they're not reissues despite them using ALL THE SAME PARTS, HARDWARE, AND PICKUPS as the AV's.

User avatar
sugarandopium
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 562
Joined: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:05 pm

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by sugarandopium » Wed Sep 28, 2022 6:18 am

Just for the record…. My headstock comment about it changing mid year 66 was in response to the “the headstock changed in 67” comment.
I really don’t mind the fact the headstock is smaller, I actually prefer the smaller headstock so I’m totally fine with that inaccuracy.

User avatar
welshywelsh
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:58 am

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by welshywelsh » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:07 am

If the LPB looks good and more importantly sounds somewhere close to a vintage model, it's a winner in my eyes at a fraction of the cost of a '66. What's not to like about that.

There is absolutely no one that's going to come up to me after a gig and say "well the headstock should be bigger". If they did, it's really not someone I'd want to spend time with anyway.

The world is far too crazy at the moment to get bothered by such trivial details.

User avatar
algeriet
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:29 am
Location: Tibro, Sweden

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by algeriet » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:14 am

Hmm...
How did we go from this (sensible) perspective:
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:47 pm
I have to laugh at the interesting comments on the various boards. These are really obvious (to me) just another tweak to the existing AO line. The only difference being the colours offered and the 7.25" radius fretboards.

Honestly, what's the difference between PV 63 Tele pickups and PV 64 Tele pickups? Or PV 65 Jazzmaster pickups and PV 66 Jazzmaster pickups?

The AO50's Strat was a combination of the AV56 and AV59 parts and specs - I would wager the new 57 will be pretty close to the former 56 and the new 61 will probably be a mashup of the former 59 and 65 Strats (in terms of parts and pickups).

The finish stated is "nitrocellulose lacquer" which is exactly what they say on the AO lines. I've noticed they have not used the term "flash coat lacquer" which was specifically used when describing the 12-17 AV finishes (and is still used in the CS today).

I think they're just rebranding/repackaging a lot of the stuff they already have and putting a new price tag on them.

To this? Yikes!
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:39 am
From all your whining it doesn't seem like ANYTHING will satisfy you. So why don't you just go buy actual vintage guitars and quit complaining that new materials, production methods, and interpretations of 60 year old instruments aren't the exact same thing as they were in an era that lasted for less than 10 years total back in the day.

The AO's are the finest production guitars I've laid hands on. They're not vintage accurate because they're not reissues despite them using ALL THE SAME PARTS, HARDWARE, AND PICKUPS as the AV's.
Clearly I am only asking for Fender to make the AVII series up to the standards of the guitars they did as late as 2017 lol. Their production methods 2018 up until today versus 2012 to 2017, when it comes to American reissue production guitars, are two separate worlds.

Also I do in fact buy vintage guitars when opportunity permits, doesn't mean that I cannot enjoy new guitars as well and want one of my favourite guitar companies to hold the same level of calibre that they did just five years ago.
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:47 pm
I think they're just rebranding/repackaging a lot of the stuff they already have and putting a new price tag on them.
Your words, not mine, but my sentiments exactly.
welshywelsh wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:07 am
There is absolutely no one that's going to come up to me after a gig and say "well the headstock should be bigger". If they did, it's really not someone I'd want to spend time with anyway.
Why not, why you discriminating against people who wish your headstock was bigger?
welshywelsh wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:07 am
If the LPB looks good and more importantly sounds somewhere close to a vintage model, it's a winner in my eyes at a fraction of the cost of a '66. What's not to like about that.
After all is written and done, I hope the guitar ends up looking sweet nonetheless. Also, when the heck are they gonna do that American Vintage Electric XII reissue?!

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8857
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by JSett » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:19 am

algeriet wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:14 am
Powdered Toast Man wrote:
Mon Sep 26, 2022 1:47 pm
I think they're just rebranding/repackaging a lot of the stuff they already have and putting a new price tag on them.
Your words, not mine, but my sentiments exactly.
Haven't Fender basically done exactly that since 1962?
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
algeriet
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 404
Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2016 4:29 am
Location: Tibro, Sweden

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by algeriet » Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:46 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:19 am
Haven't Fender basically done exactly that since 1962?
You know what we mean, buddy. 😎

User avatar
JamesSGBrown
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 1:36 pm
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by JamesSGBrown » Wed Sep 28, 2022 8:20 am

I’ve got an AV65 Jag, and have had the JM and a Strat from that series.

I see no reason to get one of these over a used AV65. Prices are getting totally bonkers!

User avatar
Zeus
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 281
Joined: Sat Aug 29, 2009 4:27 am
Location: Adelaide, Australia

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Zeus » Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 pm

I think offset fans are used to getting slightly let down by Fender, I can't imagine a (hypothetical) '66 Strat reissue not getting the larger headstock and every historical detail right.

The '66 Custom Shop Strat description on the Fender website even boasts about the headstock!

'1966 was the first full year of the larger headstock on the Stratocaster—a significant enlargement that notably changed the look of the guitar and, many believe, enhanced its resonance. '

(I also think, perhaps blasphemously, that the larger headstock is an aesthetic improvement.)

User avatar
jdr1014
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Dec 16, 2011 8:02 am

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by jdr1014 » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:01 pm

and ........ some claimed gave more CBS identity and a larger advertising "billboard". I had a new CBS Strat back in 68 and it was a good one. Currently have a CS 69 Strat with the large headstock and it's great too. I never noted any "enhanced resonance" over my other Strats though.

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Embenny » Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:04 pm

Zeus wrote:
Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 pm
I think offset fans are used to getting slightly let down by Fender, I can't imagine a (hypothetical) '66 Strat reissue not getting the larger headstock and every historical detail right.

The '66 Custom Shop Strat description on the Fender website even boasts about the headstock!

'1966 was the first full year of the larger headstock on the Stratocaster—a significant enlargement that notably changed the look of the guitar and, many believe, enhanced its resonance. '

(I also think, perhaps blasphemously, that the larger headstock is an aesthetic improvement.)
"Many" believe the CBD headstock increases resonance?

Other than that statement being laughably absurd, strat guys have been shitting on CBS models for decades.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
Jan Deal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 423
Joined: Wed Apr 13, 2011 12:19 pm
Location: Aberdeen, United Kingdom
Contact:

Re: There's going to be an American Vintage 2 series apparently.

Post by Jan Deal » Thu Sep 29, 2022 12:41 am

I am definitely angry about this, for some reason. The bevels on the pickguard are probably off.
Seas, Starry : Fuzz / Pop / Noises

"Gorgeous, soaring waves of guitars which feedback and squall deliriously with fluid and organic rhythms”

www.seasstarry.bandcamp.com

Post Reply