Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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CivoLee
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Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by CivoLee » Sun Sep 18, 2022 4:59 pm

Because of the bridge, I mean...

I have a Blacktop JM with a Seymour Duncan Invader in the bridge that I has going to replace with a P-Rails to get single coil tones, but the lack of sustain is starting to get to me. I know you can replace the bridge with a Mastery for better sustain, but between the cost of that, the P-Rails and the Triple Shot mounting ring (plus the labor to have all that installed since I'm no guitar tech), I'm beginning to wonder if my offset needs wouldn't be better served by a Doheny HH or V12 even...

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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by ainm » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:02 am

A Strat-type bridge will give more acoustic sustain, so if you're looking for the ultimate sustain-machine, you'll be able to squeeze a little more out of something like a Doheny. Are you looking for ultimate sustain, though, or just more?

Pickups play a massive role in most things electric guitar. When we're talking about things like clarity and sustain in particular, the electronic impact they have on tone often blows away acoustic impact. Your're about to change pickups. Expect changes.

Pickups also have an impact on acoustic tone, though. They're magnets, so the stronger the magnets are, the less freely the strings can vibrate and the sooner they return to rest/silent. I don't know about the P Rails, but those Invaders are known to be sustain killers because of their strong magnetic field. If they're set fairly high, try lowering them a fair bit and listen out for sustain changes. They'll be quieter, but you may notice a difference.

The bridges/tails that Fender put on most of their offsets are what many people consider to be the offset sound. Yes, you lose acoustic sustain with a low break angle and a large course of string post-bridge, but unless you're playing music where you're holding clean notes for 12 bars (I exaggerate), you can make it back electronically. What you gain are overtones/jangle.

Some people, like me, just like the way offsets look and have them in all configurations. Can I ask if it's the offset aesthetic or sound you're chasing?

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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by jvin248 » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:18 am

Sustain is altered by how much string length is beyond the nut and saddles to stretch. Think headless guitar with very short string behind the saddles will sustain the longest. Then the stretching strings over the saddle and nut can be improved with lowered friction. Don't use grease as it attracts dirt and grit, use graphite powder like 'dry lock lube'. If you think about string length and friction you can sort out break angles, bridge styles, tuner distances and even string wrap on tuner posts (use less break angle).

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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by andy_tchp » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:21 am

Yes.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by timtam » Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:52 am

jvin248 wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 2:18 am
Sustain is altered by how much string length is beyond the nut and saddles to stretch. Think headless guitar with very short string behind the saddles will sustain the longest. Then the stretching strings over the saddle and nut can be improved with lowered friction. Don't use grease as it attracts dirt and grit, use graphite powder like 'dry lock lube'. If you think about string length and friction you can sort out break angles, bridge styles, tuner distances and even string wrap on tuner posts (use less break angle).
Lube the nut slots, but on a rocking bridge never lube the string-saddle points. The function of the rocking bridge with trem use relies on high string-saddle friction. So that when the strings change length over the bridge they maintain consistent grip on the saddles/bridge, rocking it all the way back or forward, and then returning all the way to exactly where it started (neutral). But if you have a fixed bridge - like Mastery or TOM-style - the trem can only work well with the opposite physics ... that is low string-saddle friction, because the strings must slide over the saddles with trem use. So in that case lube those string-saddle contacts (esp if the bridge/saddles move at all with trem use, a sign that friction is too high).
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:55 am

I can only say that my Jazzmasters with Mastery bridges sustain all one could reasonably ask for.

I haven't owned a Doheny, but I have owned a Legacy, which has the same tremolo and bridge unit. I don't really recall it being anything exceptional regarding sustain, one way or the other. I can't offhand recall if it was better or worse than my upgraded Jazzmasters. I probably never really thought about it.

I would suggest a bridge upgrade, then again, you have a Tune-O-Matic on there and it's not like they impeded sustain. There certainly are better bridges than what came on that guitar.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by Ceylon » Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:11 am

I'd say that yes, it probably will. I had an S-500 for a few years that I didn't get along with on some purely metaphysical level but it had all the tone and sustain you could hope for, and I think a lot of that was down to the bridge. I don't know if the modern Dohenys come with a big sustain block like mine did, but if they do, you won't be disappointed.

I should say though that I've also never been disappointed in the sustain I've gotten from the traditional offset bridge setup. Not when plugged in anyway. It could be that shimming the neck and giving it a good setup could give you just that extra bit that'd make you happy with what you've got. Lowering pickups, seeing to the nut, that sort of thing.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by Fiddy » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:29 am

What do you gents do with all this extra sustain?

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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by BoringPostcards » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:31 am

tribi9 wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:29 am
What do you gents do with all this extra sustain?
Soar o’er the hills and oceans, of course.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:37 am

Image
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:25 am

tribi9 wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:29 am
What do you gents do with all this extra sustain?
I mean, nothing, I just play guitar. I didn't care when my Jazzmaster had very little sustain and I don't care how much it has now, but it certainly is a noticeable difference. I'm not BB fucking King over here.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by sal paradise » Mon Sep 19, 2022 10:28 am

My JM is a delight to play unplugged with the mastery. It sings, sounds lovely.
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by panoramic » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:22 am

tribi9 wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:29 am
What do you gents do with all this extra sustain?
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by JSett » Mon Sep 19, 2022 11:31 am

tribi9 wrote:
Mon Sep 19, 2022 9:29 am
What do you gents do with all this extra sustain?
Fight off the ghost of Hendrix
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Re: Do Dohenys sustain better than Jazzmasters?

Post by parry » Mon Sep 19, 2022 12:01 pm

Why isn't anybody talking SUSTONE™?!
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