Testing the Definition of Insanity - NGD Redux - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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MattK
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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by MattK » Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:07 am
The whole thing seems to be based on the assumption that consumers of "Classic Vibe" and other "vintage"-style instruments are not particularly discerning about build quality, and will pay whatever, which is probably true. It's stunning how awful the post-2019 Classic Vibe guitars are compared to the Contemporary Series ones, at the same or higher prices and from the same factory floors.
A bit off topic here but I have to disagree based on my experience of a CV 50s bass (made in Indonesia) from 2019. When I got it I was shocked by the quality and workmanship - felt like 80s or 90s Fender Japan. Haven’t had an issue with it in the six months I’ve had it, and still my go-to bass.

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Re: Returned Due to QC Flaws - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by Larsongs » Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:14 pm

bessieboporbach wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:11 am
Larsongs wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:29 am
It puzzles me how Gretsch & Epiphone can build really good Guitars in China or wherever but Squier can’t? Aren’t all the Manufacturers building their overseas built Guitar lines in pretty much the same Factories? They just retool for Epiphone, PRS, Gretsch, Squier or whoever?
It has nothing to do with the quality of the factories. China has been making fine stringed instruments for thousands of years. There is a robust culture of luthiery there and there are many master guitar builders, as well as innumerable people skilled enough to assemble a Strat and set one up.

The issue is the margins Fender is trying to make on these. Most guitars made in Asia are mostly made by hand. The CNC roughs out the shape and contours and then the employees set to work. Hand work takes time. Time is money.

Fender wants more guitars for less money. This is why they dropped Grand Reward/Farida for Cort on the Classic Vibes. Cort said they could make the guitars for less money. Less money means less hand work. Fender could charge the same or more ("inflation"). Everybody wins, except the consumer.
Squier 40th Anniv JM is $599.00. Bolt on neck. Solid body.. Easier to build.. Consistently Poor QC with VMJM’s, CV JM’s & these. As well as other Squier JM’s.. I can’t speak for the Squier Jags but being built the same way in the same factories it’s probably similar..

The Epiphone 335’s are $599.00… are Set Necks, Semi Hollow Archtop Construction.. much more complex and time consuming Builds.. They have been consistently well built for several years with excellent QC…

They’re both equally Priced, built in Asia & Indonesia.. Yet dramatic differences in build quality… It doesn’t make sense why Fender doesn’t correct this?

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by marqueemoon » Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:55 pm

Capitalism, man.

Probably just shopping these specs around to the lowest bidder.

If they even do that. With some products it’s more like “We made an exact copy of your thing. Want us to put your name on it?”

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Re: Returned Due to QC Flaws - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by sugarandopium » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:01 am

Larsongs wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 9:14 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 6:11 am
Larsongs wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 5:29 am
It puzzles me how Gretsch & Epiphone can build really good Guitars in China or wherever but Squier can’t? Aren’t all the Manufacturers building their overseas built Guitar lines in pretty much the same Factories? They just retool for Epiphone, PRS, Gretsch, Squier or whoever?
It has nothing to do with the quality of the factories. China has been making fine stringed instruments for thousands of years. There is a robust culture of luthiery there and there are many master guitar builders, as well as innumerable people skilled enough to assemble a Strat and set one up.

The issue is the margins Fender is trying to make on these. Most guitars made in Asia are mostly made by hand. The CNC roughs out the shape and contours and then the employees set to work. Hand work takes time. Time is money.

Fender wants more guitars for less money. This is why they dropped Grand Reward/Farida for Cort on the Classic Vibes. Cort said they could make the guitars for less money. Less money means less hand work. Fender could charge the same or more ("inflation"). Everybody wins, except the consumer.
Squier 40th Anniv JM is $599.00. Bolt on neck. Solid body.. Easier to build.. Consistently Poor QC with VMJM’s, CV JM’s & these. As well as other Squier JM’s.. I can’t speak for the Squier Jags but being built the same way in the same factories it’s probably similar..

The Epiphone 335’s are $599.00… are Set Necks, Semi Hollow Archtop Construction.. much more complex and time consuming Builds.. They have been consistently well built for several years with excellent QC…

They’re both equally Priced, built in Asia & Indonesia.. Yet dramatic differences in build quality… It doesn’t make sense why Fender doesn’t correct this?
Yeah that’s pretty much what I was trying to say in my epiphone comment.
Well said!

When the VMs were 350 new this all made sense.
600$ for a squire at this point? No thank you!

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by sugarandopium » Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:06 am

I wonder if the squier strats and teles are any better since they’re the bread and butter.

Maybe they’re just content to have offsets that only look good carrying the squier name.

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by Pacafeliz » Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:59 am

...just came out of the MusicStore and I just had to share this, regarding QC at Squier lately:

Image
:wtf: :fp:
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by Pacafeliz » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:02 am

MatthewK wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:07 am
The whole thing seems to be based on the assumption that consumers of "Classic Vibe" and other "vintage"-style instruments are not particularly discerning about build quality, and will pay whatever, which is probably true. It's stunning how awful the post-2019 Classic Vibe guitars are compared to the Contemporary Series ones, at the same or higher prices and from the same factory floors.
A bit off topic here but I have to disagree based on my experience of a CV 50s bass (made in Indonesia) from 2019. When I got it I was shocked by the quality and workmanship - felt like 80s or 90s Fender Japan. Haven’t had an issue with it in the six months I’ve had it, and still my go-to bass.
Have to agree here.
The massive QC fall/crash must've come with or after COVID.
My €99 Bullet Mustang was a dream to play right outta the box.
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by Larsongs » Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:23 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:02 am
MatthewK wrote:
Fri Aug 19, 2022 4:03 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:07 am
The whole thing seems to be based on the assumption that consumers of "Classic Vibe" and other "vintage"-style instruments are not particularly discerning about build quality, and will pay whatever, which is probably true. It's stunning how awful the post-2019 Classic Vibe guitars are compared to the Contemporary Series ones, at the same or higher prices and from the same factory floors.
A bit off topic here but I have to disagree based on my experience of a CV 50s bass (made in Indonesia) from 2019. When I got it I was shocked by the quality and workmanship - felt like 80s or 90s Fender Japan. Haven’t had an issue with it in the six months I’ve had it, and still my go-to bass.
Have to agree here.
The massive QC fall/crash must've come with or after COVID.
My €99 Bullet Mustang was a dream to play right outta the box.
My experience with VMJM’s was before Covid… I went thru 3-4 & every one had serious QC problems… I bought Online.. 2 from Sam Ash & 1-2 more from GC. Each of them had major QC issues, Broken Parts & one had a twisted Neck.. I liked the Pickups & wanted to make one of them work… The last one I bought had the twisted Neck.. 2 Days after I’d received I tried to do a Factory Warranty Claim through GC, the Company I bought from, they turned me down.. I returned it & got my money back…

There may have been good runs but I’ve never seen one..

I also bought a JMJM.. Nothing was broken but QC was still pretty bad.. It took forever to Set it up to make it a decent Player.. I did keep it but seldom play it.. I should sell it..

Much happier with my AV65 Jag & AV65 JM…….

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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by bessieboporbach » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:12 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:02 am
Have to agree here.
The massive QC fall/crash must've come with or after COVID.
My €99 Bullet Mustang was a dream to play right outta the box.
I can't speak to the Bullet guitars, I've never owned one. At their price I don't think there's anything too disagreeable about their quality. It's the Classic Vibes, which now cost as much as $770 in my country, that rub me the wrong way.

My Classic Vibe Jazzmaster was pre-COVID (I pre-ordered it from the original run of CV offsets), and although I like the sound of it quite a lot, in terms of its components and build quality, it's junk.

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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by Larsongs » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:22 am

bessieboporbach wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:12 am
Pacafeliz wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:02 am
Have to agree here.
The massive QC fall/crash must've come with or after COVID.
My €99 Bullet Mustang was a dream to play right outta the box.
I can't speak to the Bullet guitars, I've never owned one. At their price I don't think there's anything too disagreeable about their quality. It's the Classic Vibes, which now cost as much as $770 in my country, that rub me the wrong way.

My Classic Vibe Jazzmaster was pre-COVID (I pre-ordered it from the original run of CV offsets), and although I like the sound of it quite a lot, in terms of its components and build quality, it's junk.
Yeah, I figured if I have to buy quality components & rebuild a VMJM to AV65 level I might as well buy an AV65.. So that’s what I did.. And I’m glad I did….

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Re: NGD - Squier 40th Anniversary Vintage Edition Jazzmaster

Post by Embenny » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:50 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:02 am
Have to agree here.
The massive QC fall/crash must've come with or after COVID.
My €99 Bullet Mustang was a dream to play right outta the box.
I dunno, my Bullet Mustang was made in 2016, even had a rosewood fretboard, and that neck was the hottest of hot garbage that I've ever laid hands on.

The frets were so rough that bending a string made my teeth ache from the metal on metal grinding, and the wood was so flimsy and/or poorly cured that I could bend three semitones just by putting some pressure on it with my fretting hand. It was so bendy that I literally couldn't play normally on it, because regular hand/body movements would turn into accidental vibrato...and not in a musical way.

Having said that, the body was flawless. Immaculate and deep, sparkly blue finish. Tidy wiring with good pots. Shielding paint in the cavities. Shockingly nice stock pickups.

So, I just pulled off the neck and used it as a modding platform, and it's now one of the coolest little guitars I own, though my wife quickly claimed it after picking it up and going, "it's so wee!" She's 5' tall on a good day, and the extra-thin, extra-light body (even by Mustang standards) is really to her taste.

Image
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by ainm » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:50 am

I've generally been pretty happy with my Squiers.

Got some old Japanese ones, which won't surprise anyone as being awesome.

Got a VM Mustang which has had an overhaul on everything but the electrics. The electrics are a bit crap, granted, but the body and neck are awesome.

Got a few Paranormals that are spotless - seriously impressed with those.

But looking at the current crop as I pass shops or watch YouTube videos, I suspect the quality isn't where it was. The finishes even look poor in the marketing pics. I get vibes of the non-Japanese 90's Squiers which were, imo, largely poor. No hands on experience in the last couple of years, admittedly. Just a suspicion.

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by ainm » Sat Aug 20, 2022 9:53 am

Pacafeliz wrote:
Sat Aug 20, 2022 6:59 am
...just came out of the MusicStore and I just had to share this, regarding QC at Squier lately:

Image
:wtf: :fp:
Oh dear. The upside-down pickup is the icing 😂

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by Larsongs » Tue Aug 23, 2022 7:49 am

Accidental? Or on purpose?

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Re: Returned & Refunded - Squier 40th AV Vntge. Edt. JM

Post by javier-san » Tue Aug 23, 2022 2:33 pm

I figured I'd piggyback on this thread. Typically, I have not had any issues with Squiers and thought they were a good value for the money, but the "CME" shell pink Bass Vi has me thinking otherwise. The QC was pretty bad! The nut was cut awfully and the tremolo didn't work because it wasn't routed enough.

And dealing with CME and Fender was a little too much of a hassle. I'd buy another squier only if I can try it in person, but definitely no online purchases.

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