New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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tendingtropic
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New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:09 pm

Hi everyone!

I am looking for a custom offset guitar and I live in Amsterdam.
Nearby I have this boutique guitar builder called rebel relic. I believe they make good quality guitars.

I reserved these two models of what they call the rebelmaster

https://www.rebelrelic.com/index.php?ro ... h=wrangler

and

https://www.rebelrelic.com/index.php?ro ... h=wrangler

Main differences are:
the wood: honduran mahogany vs white limba
the bridge: the mahogany has mastery, the white has a mustang
the tremolo: not sure which one is on the mahogany (duesenberg lestrem?) and there is a Duesenberg G5 on the white one.

i shortly played them both, sound great, i found the tremolo system stiffer on the mahogany one, perhaps because of the mastery bridge/downbar?


I would love to hear your choice, and the reason, which one would you buy and why?

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by marqueemoon » Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:38 pm

A Buzz Stop is idiotic with a Mastery bridge. Idiotic period, but yeah.

In my one experience trying a guitar with a Goldo vibrato it was stiffer feeling than a Fender or Mastery. I still preferred it to a Bigsby.

If it were me I’d get the mahogany one and ask if they can swap the Goldo for a Mastery and throw the Buzz Stop in the trash.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by camilonava27 » Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:55 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Tue Aug 09, 2022 12:38 pm
A Buzz Stop is idiotic with a Mastery bridge. Idiotic period, but yeah.

In my one experience trying a guitar with a Goldo vibrato it was stiffer feeling than a Fender or Mastery. I still preferred it to a Bigsby.

If it were me I’d get the mahogany one and ask if they can swap the Goldo for a Mastery and throw the Buzz Stop in the trash.
Seems like that would be very reasonable request, no reason in putting a buzz stop on a mastery

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by Lost In Autumn » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:14 am

I'd get the mahogany model and toss the buzz stop in the trash.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by GreenKnee » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:32 am

I wonder if the buzzstop is there as the bridge is sat really low down to the body and the trem system is raised slightly above as it's sat on a plate.
If so, it would be sorted by shimming the neck and raising the bridge height as per any guitar with archtop-geometry.

Edit:
Zoomed in, higher quality photo

Image

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:17 pm

Thanks, I bought this guitar, I couldn resist, its beautiful.

Strings are still new, but i must say that the tuning stability is not great (yet),

can you think of possible explanations for this given the unusual setup/placement of the bridge and tremolo?

also, the previous post states "If so, it would be sorted by shimming the neck and raising the bridge height as per any guitar with archtop-geometry."
-> what would be sorted?

Thanks!

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:18 pm

PS: the tremolo system is a DG tremolo, supposedly: as seen here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQiV0NZMl4A

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:54 pm

Here’s another shot of this vibrato at an angle that shows the height at which the strings are anchored.

Image

In the example above the bridge is pretty low, and maybe the break angle isn’t great. Would be impossible to say without playing the guitar.

The Mastery bridge was designed to work with minimal break angle. It’s non rocking and the design relies on strings sliding in the hardened saddles, so when you release the vibrato arm the guitar returns to pitch (or close to it anyway).

All the Buzz Stop is doing here is adding friction to the system.

Honestly I would chalk this all up to ignorance on the builder’s part. It seems to be an otherwise well-made guitar, but this is offset nerd stuff.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by countertext » Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:30 pm

tendingtropic wrote:
Wed Aug 10, 2022 1:17 pm
also, the previous post states "If so, it would be sorted by shimming the neck and raising the bridge height as per any guitar with archtop-geometry."
-> what would be sorted?
That would almost certainly improve the whole system.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:16 am

Thanks, already loving this forum.

there is indeed a slight downward angle after the mastery bridge now due to the buzz stop. I can’t upload a picture that is not already online somewhere in this post can I?

I guess the buzz stop could easily be removed?

What would the benefit of this be? Better sustain/tone? Or better tuning stability? Or less tight tremolo?

The downside? Perhaps when not having enough angle to the tremolo i will have to raise the bridge? Strings popping out?

I just want to arm myself with knowledge before i contact the makers.

Other than this the build quality is awesome indeed. It feels so much better than most fenders i’ve hold in my hands!

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by Lost In Autumn » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:36 am

remove the buzz stop, shim the neck; start with a 0.5º shim from Stew Mac.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Thu Aug 11, 2022 1:54 am

Right, but to what end (remember my noobness), i want to understand what that will do / result in

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by Lost In Autumn » Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:07 am

A shim will increase string pressure on the bridge via increased break angle, same as what the buzz stop is doing; however, the shim doesn’t introduce an additional friction point, like the buzz stop. The result will be increased tuning stability, slightly more sustain than without a shim or buzzstop, freer tremolo action and better harmonic content.

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by tendingtropic » Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:26 am

Thanks! Thats exctly what I needed to hear.

Can anyone when they have time teach me how/why the increased tension/friction results in less tuning stability?

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Re: New here: Need help to decide between two offset custom guitars (rebel relic)

Post by Larsongs » Thu Aug 11, 2022 5:05 am

Why don’t you want Fender?

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