Curtis Novak JM-Historic?

[kick_the_reverb]

I have had the Historic 58 installed recently in a Squier CV. Even though they are supposed to be dark, they have some high end I don't particularly like compared to my AVRI62 equipped guitars. However, this is not a 1:1 comparison as the other guitars have old D'Addario flatwound chromes, while the Squier has new GHS Precision Flats. Nevertheless, I don't think that specific "color" of high end is coming from the strings. I will have to give it more time to see what does it sound like when the strings get older.
(If you're wondering what's the logic of dumping a set of expensive pickups in a Squier, it's to be used as a test-bed. I am trying to find the formula that will give me the 10 year old flats through AVRI62 tone, without investing those 10 years...)

Ran

[pwu]

Ran,
Have you tried lowering the Volume pot value with a resistor to ground to reduce that excessive high end? What pot values are you using? Also try swapping the pot for a lower value. It will make a difference.

[mikeymike]

Very interested in these

[noisepunk]

Finally someone is making late 60's spec grey bobbins which I love the sound of... except it says they are also Formvar wound and I thought that enamel wire was a big part of the CBS era pickup sound?

this is of absolutely no help, but there was someone on here making those about 10 years ago

i have a pair in my jazzmaster.

[kick_the_reverb]

I haven't made any changes to pot values, so they are 1 Meg. That may be the next phase of experimentation, but I do want to give the strings a chance to mellow out a little bit.

Right now I am using the "dial the volume pot back a little" method, but not a huge fan of it. I got spoiled by my number 1 AVRI62 (all stock, just very old strings).

Ran

Ran,
Have you tried lowering the Volume pot value with a resistor to ground to reduce that excessive high end? What pot values are you using? Also try swapping the pot for a lower value. It will make a difference.

[inertia]

I have a set of 1965-1969 Era Historic Novaks on order. They will likely replace my Fralin Hum-Canceling set. I’ll keep you posted.

Any update?

[pwu]

Shielding them now. Going to do an A/B with and without shielding for hum and treble loss, both pickups.
Using the following method to reduce eddy currents, thus preserving high frequencies: https://www.premierguitar.com/diy/mod-g ... il-pickups
FYI, here are the measured resistances of each:
Neck: 7.77k
Bridge: 8.17k

[jtn191]

Interesting. Curious if shielding has been successful

[pwu]

Here are the audio test clips I used to create waveform captures by recording direct to my computer, no amp:
https://soundcloud.com/pwurso/sets/curt ... al_sharing

So far, I've ben able to reduce the noise considerably, while preserving much of the tone.
There is a slight audible decrease in presence, and I'm exploring if bypassing the guitar’s Tone pot or removing the shielding from the pickup tops will help bring back the tiny bit of presence while still shielding noise. I will also record the noise floor while using one pickup alone to hear the difference without the noise cancellation of both pickups.
To be continued…





Noise floor comparison, both pickups:
Orange waveform is with shield grounded, Blue is ungrounded, White is the difference between the two.


Grounded Shields, Both Pickups:


Ungrounded Shields, Both Pickups:


Playing random riffs, both pickups:
Orange waveform is with shield grounded, Blue is ungrounded, White is the difference between the two.


Grounded Shields, Both Pickups:


Ungrounded Shields, Both Pickups:


Playing random riffs, bridge pickup:
Orange waveform is with shield grounded, Blue is ungrounded, White is the difference between the two.


Grounded Shields, Bridge Pickup:


Ungrounded Shields, Bridge Pickup:

[jwlee]

Here are the audio test clips I used to create waveform captures by recording direct to my computer, no amp:
https://soundcloud.com/pwurso/sets/curt ... al_sharing

So far, I've ben able to reduce the noise considerably, while preserving much of the tone.
There is a slight audible decrease in presence, and I'm exploring if bypassing the guitar’s Tone pot or removing the shielding from the pickup tops will help bring back the tiny bit of presence while still shielding noise. I will also record the noise floor while using one pickup alone to hear the difference without the noise cancellation of both pickups.
To be continued…

@pwu this is really helpful! Waiting for the final result! Thank you for your post!

[pwu]

Audio here:
https://soundcloud.com/pwurso/sets/more ... al_sharing

Shielding Tests
Note, the hum changes with time due to me moving the guitar in a circle to fully encourage hum and rejection. I attempted to make the exact same movements whether the shields were grounded or not. I have a switch that I'm using to close or open the ground circuit.

Ungrounded Shields (Bridge Pickups)


Grounded Shields (Bridge Pickups)


Comparison:









Tonal Comparison to Ungrounded Shields

Ungrounded shield and Tone Bypass:


Grounded shield:


Grounded shield and Tone Bypass:

[pwu]

Audio here:
https://soundcloud.com/pwurso/sets/fina ... al_sharing

Hopefully they help you to see differences in the changes I made. I will post some actual amp recordings in the near future. No more direct signals.

I'll also post my thoughts on what seemed to sound best to me.

The pickups are shielded except for the tops. Most of the copper is wrapped in packaging tape as an insulator. The side wraps until it meets, but does not complete a looped circuit. The bottom shield is also separated, except for a single wire.
Note, the sides didn't wrap around the top like in the photos in my final version. I wanted the pickup covers flush, so I moved the side shielding down until it was flush with the top edge:












Bridge Pickup


Bridge Pickup, Tone Bypassed


Noise Tests

Both Pickups Shielded


Both Pickups Unshielded


Bridge Pickup Shielded


Bridge Pickup Unshielded



Playing Tests

[tamerofbantha]

some very thorough work. thanks for posting all this

[pwu]

Audio here:
https://soundcloud.com/pwurso/sets/anot ... al_sharing

Ok everyone. Here are my findings. When going back and listening with intense scrutiny to the audio files I've recorded, I could not tell a difference between the tracks played with or without the pickup shields grounded. Not once. The visible differences you see in all the posted analysis grabs are just noise/buzz/hum reduction. Listen and decide for yourself.

So I've decided to completely shield the pickups once again. This time, I shielded the tops the same, but the sides are now separate and the bottoms have a long separating cut in them to further reduce eddy currents. I am very happy with the results. Take note that the copper foil and insulating tape laminations increase the pickup dimension slightly, and not only will it be a tight fit in the pickup covers, but the covers will also bulge slightly and fit tighter in the guitar. Since the pole pieces are longer on the underside in these Novaks, I installed the pickups upside down to ensure the pole pieces would still come through the pickup covers.

Take care!
Peter





Playing Shielded 6 (Bridge Pickup)


Playing Unshielded 6 (Bridge Pickup)


Shielding Test 4 - Grounded (Both Pickups)


Shielding Test 4 - Grounded (Bridge Pickup)


Shielding Test 4 - Ungrounded (Both Pickups)


Shielding Test 4 - Ungrounded (Bridge Pickup)


Playing comparison. White waveform is really the amount of hiss reduction!
Note, I've been setting these at 50% amplitude to ensure the waveform is visible in the window.


Bridge noise comparison. Same as above.


Both pickups noise comparison. Same as above.

[øøøøøøø]

If shielding against hum (EMI) is the goal, copper foil won’t do much.

Source some Ultraperm 80 foil and try again!