Jazzmaster vs. Jaguar for Jazz?

[garyfanclub]

On the neck pickup and with some flatwounds, you can get a gorgeous jazz tone out of a Jazzmaster. Leo knew very well what it was he was designing. I'm thinking a Jaguar would get you pretty close to the same sound but I haven't tried personally. In theory the short-scale percussiveness might really add something there.

I prefer the JM pickups personally, but they're not miles different from a Jag when you've got the tone rolled down pretty far on both, and IMO the playability and tone of the shorter scales does more for a really cool jazz sound than the (admittedly cool, smoky, and jazzy) tones of a JM neck pickup.

You can get a pretty similar jazz tone on both with the rhythm circuit. Ultimately the difference is the scale length. There isn't much of a tradition of jazz playing on short-scale guitars, for various reasons. The Byrdland, for example, is (despite its archtop construction and its coincidental name) seldom used for jazz.

This pretty much answers it... My main guitar is an MIJ Traditional with 12 gauge flats, also own an AVRI Jag that I run 12 gauge rounds on.

• Flatwounds (Ideally 12+ gauge), wouldn't be shy about spending some $$ here, the Thomastik Infelds are great and last a really long time if you clean them regularly. Flatwounds will take the edge off the the tone a bit and give you that woody "thunk" you hear in 50s-60s jazz records. Some apocryphal sources will argue that the intention behind these guitars being sold with 1meg pots was to lend some additional brightness to players using flats. We may never know the truth. Personally the lead circuit with thetone on 10 is still way too bright for me, even with flats.

• Rhythm Circuit, this is crucial, with flats this is instant smoky jazz tone. Can be muddy though, depending on your amp. Season to taste. If you're looking for vintage Jazz tones, would recc. an amp that's old and uses an octal tube preamp.

• Scale length, re: Jazzmaster/Jaguar, this comes down to individual preference. As was mentioned in a couple posts, once you've got the flats on and you're playing on the rhythm circuit, the guitars sound pretty freakin close to each other. Maybe the Jag is a bit warmer and bassier, and the Jazzmaster a bit more strident and tight with complex chords, but that could be bullshit that my ears are making up. Make your decision here based on what works for your physiology. I find the small Jag neck a bit cramped for complex chord work and leads, and find that guitar better suited to less-conventional playing styles. Could I get by with a Jag playing chord melody, absolutely, but would always pick the JM if I had a choice. IMO the biggest difference with these guitars *tonally* is in the bridge pickup; a JM chimes and jangles, a Jag is middier and barks (works really well with OD, but not relevant to this convo.)

Hope this helps, and good luck with the hunt - that's the best part!

[stevemac100]

Slightly OT, but would be really interested if anyone could share their amp settings for a solid jazz tone. The amps I use are AC10, tone master deluxe and orange rocker 15. Despite experimenting with various EQ settings and combinations of volume & tone on guitar I'm struggling to find a good jazz tone. Perhaps all of these amps are just too bright for jazz?

[mcbrandt]

Isn't the whole deal to crank the mid setting, and have the treble/bass down? Starting something like mid at 6, the others at 3?

[Maggieo]

Jim Campilongo plays Jazz on a '59 Duo-Sonic. It sounds heavenly.

[graceless]

Either will be great. The tonal range of each is incredible. Go with whatever you have an easier time playing. I have trouble hitting stretchy jazz chords on the low frets on a jazzmaster but my fingers get cramped way up high on a jag. So I have both, lol

[bessieboporbach]

Isn't the whole deal to crank the mid setting, and have the treble/bass down? Starting something like mid at 6, the others at 3?

This idea is based on a bit of a misunderstanding of how jazz guitarists set their EQs on early amps. They weren't actually trying to "crank" the mids, nor were they trying to reduce their treble -- not exactly.

Fender amps (which were the standard in the '50s and '60s when the guitar "jazz tone" was pretty much codified) have a very pronounced "smiley face" EQ signature. They didn't have a "mid" knob, but by turning down the treble and bass all the way (to 1), you could get a neutral signal by taming the top and bottom end boost. This is what Grant Green did apparently. Actually Grant's amp just had one tone knob (a treble cut) but I think the idea was pretty much the same -- turning it down tames the treble boost and produces a neutral signal.

On Fender-type amps with a mid knob, you would again have to crank the mid knob in order to overcome the smiley face EQ. The idea was always to get a neutral signal, not a midrange "punch."

After that it's pretty much all in the fingers.