Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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SamthePlant
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Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by SamthePlant » Thu Jun 03, 2021 2:43 pm

Hi everyone,

New to the forum so apologies if my post is in the wrong sub thread or whatever.

I've been toying with the idea of getting an offset guitar for a long time and will probably be in the market in the next year or so.

I play rhythm guitar and sing in a "hard rock" band. Stylistically, we're somewhere between Failure, Cloakroom, and Teenage Wrist. My main tone comes from an R8 LP, a Sovtek Mig 50, an Orange 412, and a doomed out Rams Head called the Swamp Lord. We play quite loud.

My aim for my next guitar is to find a single coil guitar that can approximate the chunky rhythm tone that I currently have.

COVID has made it impossible for me to go out and test drive anything - I'm in Southern Ontario, if you're Canadian you will understand.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!


Sam

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Pepe Silvia
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Pepe Silvia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:18 pm

Sounds like you need a guitar with a good set of P90s. P90s give some of my favorite rhythm crunch tones. I had underwound Fralin P90s in one guitar that loved fuzz.

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Larry Mal
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:59 pm

Yeah, P90s are what you are looking for.

Offset guitars are actually a pretty big family, but none of them really shine for that. They distort wonderfully, but in different ways than any PAF type pickup. They mainly cut and slash through mixes more than anything. Jazzmasters and Jaguars have a lot of harmonic content to them that other guitars don't have, and that really makes them distort in a fascinating way in my opinion, but when I'm thinking of a modern high gain rhythm sound I'm not thinking of those guitars.

The Jazzmaster would be the closest you would find, still, I'd quicker recommend that you get an SG with some hot P90s on there and I think that's more like what you are looking for.
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Pepe Silvia » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:34 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Jun 03, 2021 3:59 pm
Yeah, P90s are what you are looking for.

Offset guitars are actually a pretty big family, but none of them really shine for that. They distort wonderfully, but in different ways than any PAF type pickup. They mainly cut and slash through mixes more than anything. Jazzmasters and Jaguars have a lot of harmonic content to them that other guitars don't have, and that really makes them distort in a fascinating way in my opinion, but when I'm thinking of a modern high gain rhythm sound I'm not thinking of those guitars.

The Jazzmaster would be the closest you would find, still, I'd quicker recommend that you get an SG with some hot P90s on there and I think that's more like what you are looking for.
Jazzmaster or Jazzmaster style guitar with P90s would also be a good option. Like my old guitar:

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:40 pm

Yeah, that's always possible... still, when I'm thinking of high gain rhythm I usually think of a pretty tight and compressed sound, and that tremolo puts so much harmonics in there that it makes it a little hard for me to think of that guitar as opposed to a tight little SG with a stop tailpiece.

However, I could also completely be misunderstanding what the OP is looking for, so that Jazzmaster might just hit the spot.
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:44 pm

And you know what, I might be misunderstanding... I listened to Teenage Wrist's "Stoned, Alone" , new to me, good tune.

I guess I had been assuming that there was going to be another guitar, a "lead" guitar, maybe... but in that song it's just distorted bass and a guitar playing chords and I could easily see a distorted Jazzmaster over that. Jazzmaster's have a thick sound but also a lot of high end if you want it, and you could cut the bass on the Jazzmaster a bit and leave room for the actual bass instrument... I could see it. Plus you would get all those harmonics popping that I thought might conflict with the other guitars, but if there are no other guitars, then those harmonics can add a lot of fun.

So sure, check out a Jazzmaster.
Last edited by Larry Mal on Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by gutter rock » Thu Jun 03, 2021 5:07 pm

Good regular Jazzmaster will do it. Check out Helms Alee for heavy rock with the only guitar being a beautiful beat up Sherwood green Jazzmaster.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by gnoleb » Thu Jun 03, 2021 8:13 pm

When you say "rhythm guitar", it sounds like there is a lead guitarist, which conflicts with all three of those bands being three pieces. I'll give quick a quick recommendation on each.

If there is no second guitar in the band:
I think a stock jazzmaster might not get there because that's the problem I had. I left the Lollar JM pickup in the neck, but swapped the bridge to a Novak P-180 with a coil tap on the volume knob. This gives me a P-90 that matches well with the Lollar neck when tapped, and then extra punch/crunch when untapped. It covers all the bases I need and what I think I hear in your band examples. The Novak also pairs fantastically with the style of fender the mig-50 is based on.

If there is a second guitarist:
I agree that you can't go wrong with P-90s, but I'd consider Filtertrons (I know they aren't single coils). They are a secret weapon to cut through a mix with other guitars, they are plenty bright to compare with single coils...and let's be honest--P-90's are going to be noisey AF in high gain. Filtertrons are some of the quietist passive pickups out there and handle high gain well.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Zork » Thu Jun 03, 2021 11:56 pm

What about a Squier J Mascis? Kind of a classic Jazzmaster but the pickups have a lot of P90 character.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by SamthePlant » Fri Jun 04, 2021 3:16 pm

Thank all of you for being so responsive. So much food for thought. Thanks everyone!

I play rhythm guitar in a 2 guitar band by the way.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by bogginhead » Sat Jun 05, 2021 3:23 am

Man, I absolutely loved everything Teenage Wrist did up until Kam left. I was really hoping that they'd continue in the same vein, but they kinda haven't; the new album is good and a more positive direction, but I miss the moody stuff I guess lol. Anyways, I got a 2002-2004 CIJ Jaguar last month and started upgrading it immediately. I play pretty much the same type of stuff as you, by the way. For the pickups, I had Q Pickups In Croatia wind me a pair of Seymour Duncan Quarter Pounder Jaguar-spec single-coils that have been fantastic. I read the QPs sound more like a POP, which I love (plan to put another pair in my Les Paul DC Pro as soon as I can afford to, lol...well, humbucker-sized P90s anyways). Maybe give those a shot or something if you go the Jag route.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by sal paradise » Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:39 am

Slightly left field: how about getting a blacktop or other HH model & going for Bareknuckle Piledrivers? It’s a far more refined sound than a JM or P90, but they can handle a sh*t tonne of fuzz & retain clarity. Useful for recording & live.

Surely single coil has been done to death in doom now? 😉
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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by patski » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:11 am

Lots of Canadians on this forum. Hello from Ontario! :)

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by Embenny » Sat Jun 05, 2021 7:47 am

Welcome, from another Ontarian.

I've played Offsets as my main guitars for along time now, and all the vintage models have their quirks. The main thing with JMs and Jags is the behind-the-bridge overtones. They're accentuated by high gain and are cool, for some genres and playing styles. Like Larry said, if you want a tight response, especially for palm-muted stuff, I'd go with one that has a different style of bridge. Mustangs don't have the BTB ringing issue, but the short scale isn't for everyone. A Mustang with P90s, PAFs, or rail/stacked humbuckers is the best-suited to high gain out of the vintage bridge/vibrato-equipped Offsets. Jaguars or Jazzmasters with hardtails are great, too. I got my first Jaguar HH hardtail around 2008 and it was my go-to guitar for when I needed a tighter response without the BTB ringing. A Jaguar with a TOM/stop tailpiece is functionally a bolt-on Gibson with 0.75" shorter scale length.

Fender offers every Offset shape with a hardtail bridge these days if you need it, from the Performer Jazzmaster to the Squier Contemporary Jaguar and the Player Mustang.

There are a couple of newcomers to consider, too, from recent years.

You can still find the odd Alternate Reality model for sale new. They were from 2 years ago and have two models you should be particularly interested in. The Powercaster has a 24.75" scale (i.e. the Gibson scale, halfway between a JM and Jaguar) with a TOM bridge, P90 in the neck and PAF in the bridge. It's quite literally a Gibson for people who want an F on the headstock and and Offset body. It's a new, tweaked shape but has more or less a JM/Jag body shape.

Image

For the same series, the Meteora HH has a TOM, two PAFs, but a 25.5" (JM/"normal" Fender) scale length. The shape is a bigger departure from the 50's and 60's Offsets.

Image

Either of those would do anything any other hardtail guitar with Gibson pickups would do, which is a thicker and tighter high gain tone without the BTB ringing of the vintage JM/Jag.

Then there are all the off-brand Offsets. Too many to list! But I'll shout out Puresalem Guitars because they're small, run by a lefty guitarist who makes every model available left-handed, and because the Woodsoul might be exactly what you're looking for.

If the Powercaster is a Gibson for people who want an F on the headstock, the Woodsoul is a Gibson for people who want it to look like a Fender.

Mahogany neck, mahogany body, P90s, TOM - other than being bolt-on, it is a Gibson, but with a Jazzmaster body and Marauder/Starcaster headstock.

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Re: Offset for High Gain Rhythm Guitar

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:48 am

P90s are noisy AF. They would drive me mad if used with high gain.

I’d suggest wide ranges or regular ol’ humbuckers. Lower wind humbuckers can sound plenty heavy with the right amp/pedals.

I would personally go hardtail to minimize the ringing/overtones that can sound hashy with a lot of gain. If you’re doing a lot of start/stop and palm muting stuff the extra ringing of a traditional offset trem might not be great. Some players have turned it into an asset though.

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