Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Embenny
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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by Embenny » Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm

I don't know why I googled the guitar model, I just realized I have a photo on my phone...here is my Gretsch with my "Gretsch".

Image

They're great guitars, and the hardtail also has that third bridge thing going on.

Definitely very different from a Strat vibrato, which I also love the tone of. I'm not sure how much is from the trem block and how much is from resonance in the springs, but there's definitely a tone to that assembly that's very different from a Tele or hardtail Strat bridge. I find it as distinctive as a Jazzmaster vibrato - it just changes the whole response of the instrument, even if you deck it.
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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by Larry Mal » Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:26 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:43 pm


Definitely very different from a Strat vibrato, which I also love the tone of. I'm not sure how much is from the trem block and how much is from resonance in the springs, but there's definitely a tone to that assembly that's very different from a Tele or hardtail Strat bridge. I find it as distinctive as a Jazzmaster vibrato - it just changes the whole response of the instrument, even if you deck it.
On my G&L Legacy I discovered that there was an upgrade one could buy, so I did, it was an all steel block. The base one I think was zinc or something, I forget. Anyway I bought the good steel one and found that it made a pretty noticeable difference in the sound.

When I say "noticeable" I again mean something that a guitar player would notice about their own guitar, not something that you'll notice on a Television album or what have you.

Anyway, I have always found the Jazzmaster to be the sum of its parts, and I wouldn't want a Jazzmaster with a Strat tremolo unit on there same as I wouldn't want a Stratocaster with a Telecaster bridge on there.

Don't tell Nile Rodgers I said that, though, first I thought the Fender Acoustasonic that he likes was a piece of garbage, and now I'm saying I wouldn't want a hardtail Strat, either. I'm friends with Nile on Facebook so of course we have a deep personal relationship and I would hate to jeopardize that.

I think the American Performer Jazzmaster sucks and I don't like the stupid Doheny, either.

That's just me, though, and they could work just fine for a lot of people.

But my advice to the original author of this thread, I would say no, if you feel that the American Performer doesn't sound like a Jazzmaster as it is, then it won't no matter what you do with it. I don't quite know what the Yosemite Jazzmaster pickups are, but they are single coil, and probably would be capable of giving an authentic Jazzmaster sound.

I would not expect new pickups to change the instrument much... a Strat tremolo and a Jazzmaster genuinely have pretty unique sounds that set the stage for the fundamentals of the instruments.

And this concludes my advice, and I'm fully aware that the original author is probably never coming back to read any of it.
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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by bessieboporbach » Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 am

Caddy65 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:14 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:58 am
spencersmith wrote:
Mon Apr 26, 2021 8:53 am
i tried an American Performer JM and it had a nice neck. It sounded nothing like a JM though.
I'm not an aficionado or a purist, so please educate me.

With different pickups, could the Performer actually sound like a Jazzmaster?
Again, i'm not a purist - the bridge and tremolo are not essentials for me.
BUT - are they integral to the sound of a jazzmaster?
I find these questions very intriguing because they always inspire such definitive responses -- "nothing that is not a 1958-spec Jazzmaster will ever sound like a Jazzmaster," etc.

But on the other hand countless offset guitar aficionados point to Marquee Moon as the definitive Jazzmaster sound and apparently Tom actually played only one song on that album on a Jazzmaster ("Friction" IIRC) and the vast majority of the rest of it was a Gretsch with a Bigsby or some kind of Danelectro, including the title track.

This would seem to suggest that literally anything can sound like a Jazzmaster if you really want it to.

Sorry, but I have never even heard of Marquee Moon and have been playing Jazzmasters since I bought a new one in 1964. To me, and most others around my age, the definitive Jazzmaster sound is the lead guitar on The Ventures ‘Walk Don’t Run’ album in 1960.
Hey, man, you don't need to tell me -- I'm a huge Ventures fan, although more so after Nokie took over on lead guitar and of course most of those records were made with a Mosrite.

Anyway, you really should listen to Marquee Moon -- not because of the Jazzmaster content (it only has two tracks with a Jazzmaster), but because it's wonderful. And Tom Verlaine loved the Ventures too.

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by timiscott » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:05 am

I'm pretty sure there were no effects pedals used on Marquee Moon. According to Richard Lloyd's biography, they whirled a mic round to try and emulate the sound of a Leslie speaker on one part though. It's not the read you think either as he was clinically insane and working as a male prostitute at various times before their record deal.

I love Verlaine but I don't think I've ever heard or read a good word about the man. I know he stopped Lloyd Cole and accused him of ripping off his vocal style, to which Cole replied that, if he'd done that, he'd have sold no records either...

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Jun 18, 2021 6:30 am

timiscott wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:05 am
I'm pretty sure there were no effects pedals used on Marquee Moon.
There may not have been... I don't have any idea. I was only talking about what might happen on a typical recording process, and why if you show up to the studio one day and you accidentally packed your Jazzmaster instead of your Stratocaster, you'll be just fine.
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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by bessieboporbach » Fri Jun 18, 2021 7:56 am

timiscott wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:05 am
I love Verlaine but I don't think I've ever heard or read a good word about the man. I know he stopped Lloyd Cole and accused him of ripping off his vocal style, to which Cole replied that, if he'd done that, he'd have sold no records either...
This isn't what happened at all. Other people, especially critics, were comparing Cole to Verlaine. Cole himself had covered Television's "Glory" which confirmed the line of influence. This was all during a period when Cole was making piles of money and Verlaine was really struggling, having been mishandled by various labels (although his own difficult personality -- artistically and personally -- didn't help).

Somebody asked Cole about the controversy and Cole "let it be known" that he considered Tom a shitty singer and didn't appreciate the comparison. Somewhere around this time they met because they were on affiliated labels, and Verlaine was frosty ("bitter") to Cole.

Cole told this story on a blog post a few years back, but if he thought it made him come off well and Verlaine badly, he was mistaken.

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by timiscott » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:11 am

Pretty sure that one came from the horse's mouth in an interview, not a blog post... and it's not news to me that Cole's lot played 'Glory'.

The best Cole story is the one where went backstage to have an audience with MES after a Fall gig, at which point a face looked round the dressing room door and called out 'Here, Mark, that Jimmy Carr off the telly's here to see you!'.

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by Caddy65 » Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:51 pm

bessieboporbach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 am
Caddy65 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:14 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 7:58 am


I find these questions very intriguing because they always inspire such definitive responses -- "nothing that is not a 1958-spec Jazzmaster will ever sound like a Jazzmaster," etc.

But on the other hand countless offset guitar aficionados point to Marquee Moon as the definitive Jazzmaster sound and apparently Tom actually played only one song on that album on a Jazzmaster ("Friction" IIRC) and the vast majority of the rest of it was a Gretsch with a Bigsby or some kind of Danelectro, including the title track.

This would seem to suggest that literally anything can sound like a Jazzmaster if you really want it to.

Sorry, but I have never even heard of Marquee Moon and have been playing Jazzmasters since I bought a new one in 1964. To me, and most others around my age, the definitive Jazzmaster sound is the lead guitar on The Ventures ‘Walk Don’t Run’ album in 1960.
Hey, man, you don't need to tell me -- I'm a huge Ventures fan, although more so after Nokie took over on lead guitar and of course most of those records were made with a Mosrite.

Anyway, you really should listen to Marquee Moon -- not because of the Jazzmaster content (it only has two tracks with a Jazzmaster), but because it's wonderful. And Tom Verlaine loved the Ventures too.

They didn’t play the Mosrites until 1963, then only until 1967. They liked the endorsement money, but the guitars not so much. Nokia said in an interview not long before he passed that of all the guitars he had played (and it had been a bunch) that his favorite was always the Jazzmaster.

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by bessieboporbach » Sat Jun 19, 2021 6:38 pm

Caddy65 wrote:
Sat Jun 19, 2021 2:51 pm
bessieboporbach wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 4:24 am
Caddy65 wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:14 pm



Sorry, but I have never even heard of Marquee Moon and have been playing Jazzmasters since I bought a new one in 1964. To me, and most others around my age, the definitive Jazzmaster sound is the lead guitar on The Ventures ‘Walk Don’t Run’ album in 1960.
Hey, man, you don't need to tell me -- I'm a huge Ventures fan, although more so after Nokie took over on lead guitar and of course most of those records were made with a Mosrite.

Anyway, you really should listen to Marquee Moon -- not because of the Jazzmaster content (it only has two tracks with a Jazzmaster), but because it's wonderful. And Tom Verlaine loved the Ventures too.

They didn’t play the Mosrites until 1963, then only until 1967. They liked the endorsement money, but the guitars not so much. Nokia said in an interview not long before he passed that of all the guitars he had played (and it had been a bunch) that his favorite was always the Jazzmaster.
It just seems like most of my favorite Ventures recordings were made during that period, e.g. Ventures In Space. But Nokie could sound like himself on any guitar. Even on that strange Tele with humbuckers and a zero fret he sounded (or could sound) much like he did on his Jazzy.

I think the Mosrite era records have a hard edge that is unlike the records they made before or after. That being said, who knows what instruments they were actually playing in the studio?

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by spencersmith » Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:26 pm

I would not expect new pickups to change the instrument much... a Strat tremolo and a Jazzmaster genuinely have pretty unique sounds that set the stage for the fundamentals of the instruments.

And this concludes my advice, and I'm fully aware that the original author is probably never coming back to read any of it.
Here i am - original poster. Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll stay away from the Am Performer. ANy recommendations on a simplified but fundamental Jazzmaster?

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Re: Performer Jazzmaster - could it SOUND like a Jazzmaster?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:50 am

spencersmith wrote:
Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:28 am


Here i am - original poster. Thanks everyone for the advice. I'll stay away from the Am Performer. ANy recommendations on a simplified but fundamental Jazzmaster?
Not sure what the budget is, but there are some cool things out there. The Vintera looks great and from the ones I've played, well, it's a great entry level price Jazzmaster.

The American Professional Jazzmasters are very good, also, and don't break the bank. And then you go up in price with the American Ultra and Original, both good guitars in their own way, and of course Fender Japan is making great Jazzmasters same as always.

I've had the same advice with Jazzmasters for over ten years now, if you are new to the Jazzmaster and want to try it out, great, but just get a real Jazzmaster, at least at first.

So:

1) No Gibson parts on there, so no P90s, no Tune-O-Matic bridges and shit,

2) It's not a Stratocaster or a Telecaster, either,

3) Make sure the bridge is in the traditional location and that's all there is to it.

You may want to mod it, I did, you might want something different entirely, but give yourself a chance to learn the Jazzmaster as a whole. It was a complete and fresh design that didn't use anything that had ever come before it, and it's a wonderful instrument- so give that a try first. Chances are you'll like it.
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