'65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by countertext » Tue May 04, 2021 3:00 pm

ThatGuyOverThere wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:26 am
andy_tchp wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 3:00 pm
Or should we all just accept the fanciful suggestion of it being done at the factory for 'fun'? An actual Fender Custom Shop employee has weighed in on on that other forum (TGP - the bastion of guitar related 'fun' on the internet :D )and said 'no' to that idea.
Not suggesting we accept that theory at all, personally I didn’t think that was plausible either. This place was once a hub of people who liked offset guitars, I figured there’d be more connections here to people that might find who the original artist was. Alas.
???

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by HNB » Tue May 04, 2021 3:43 pm

I agree we are all negative hateful dads here who have no interest in helping others through this forum. It should be avoided at all costs in favor of the other forums that are full of happy and helpful dads just waiting to jump in and save the day. :D
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue May 04, 2021 3:51 pm

Arright- let me throw my 2 sheckels in...

Yeah, a couple people have been a little terse in this thread, and the overall tone has soured, so I've basically stayed away since the first page to avoid the fuss. That said, OP has been taking people's shit with a pretty good attitude, and his small amount of sarcasm has been met with a disproportionate storm of calling him down. All options being discussed, I think we've pared off the truly unreasonable, and if OP was leaning slightly toward the plausible-but-highly-unlikely-and-awesome-if-it-happened at some point along the way, who can blame him?

Now- for my relevant experience in this kind of stuff- I've made my living for the past 3 decades in the "put X logo/graphics on Y item" industry, and can definitely offer a few experienced opinions:

1) A cut-vinyl decal is the most likely way that this graphic made it onto the guitar. The uniform depth and clean-line precision rule out a lot of hand-done or accidental methods, and point to something computer assisted.

2) IF a vinyl logo was put on the guitar fresh enough off the line, there is the possibility that the vinyl-covered vs. uncovered areas of the finish cured differently, causing the slight-but-measurable difference in the finish once the graphic was removed. This is an uncommon, but known effect seen in vehicle paint when vinyl graphics are applied & removed.

3) Also plausible is the 'topcoat removed with the graphic' scenario mentioned upthread, as I've seen similar things happen on automotive finishes when the bond between the topcoat and the base layer is improperly set- many factors can cause this to happen: temperature, timing, and a host of other variables can affect that bond. When the adhesive from a vinyl decal is added to the mix, sometimes the adhesive bond can be stronger than the bond between finish layers/coats/whatnot, resulting in part of the finish coming off with the graphic when removed.

4) Or possibly- the spirit of some Asiatic deity was somehow sealed into the guitar, and by uttering the proper keywords (or playing the appropriate chord progression?) the spirit is released from its prison, and manifests itself in the Physical Plane to do the bidding of its summoning master! I've seen several documentaries chronicling similar scenarios- Yu-Gi-Oh!, Hikaru No Go, Guyver, and Jujutsu Kaisen, just to name a few.

5) People can be a bit dickish at times here in innernet-land. Take all responses and replies as you have been- with grace and a grain of salt. One day we shall draw our guitars and play together in the chorus of infinity!

Plug in, turn up, and play that dragon-loaded geet against the Void of All Opressors!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by jfromel » Tue May 04, 2021 4:38 pm

SignoftheDragon wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 3:51 pm
1) A cut-vinyl decal is the most likely way that this graphic made it onto the guitar. The uniform depth and clean-line precision rule out a lot of hand-done or accidental methods, and point to something computer assisted.

2) IF a vinyl logo was put on the guitar fresh enough off the line, there is the possibility that the vinyl-covered vs. uncovered areas of the finish cured differently, causing the slight-but-measurable difference in the finish once the graphic was removed. This is an uncommon, but known effect seen in vehicle paint when vinyl graphics are applied & removed.

4) Or possibly- the spirit of some Asiatic deity was somehow sealed into the guitar, and by uttering the proper keywords (or playing the appropriate chord progression?) the spirit is released from its prison, and manifests itself in the Physical Plane to do the bidding of its summoning master! I've seen several documentaries chronicling similar scenarios- Yu-Gi-Oh!, Hikaru No Go, Guyver, and Jujutsu Kaisen, just to name a few.

5) People can be a bit dickish at times here in innernet-land. Take all responses and replies as you have been- with grace and a grain of salt. One day we shall draw our guitars and play together in the chorus of infinity!

Plug in, turn up, and play that dragon-loaded geet against the Void of All Opressors!
I took out #3 B/C the top coat looks perfectly in-tact under high magnification with a loop. I'm having a custom cut-vinyl sticker made with the graphics, Just created an SVG from the $3 sticker art and had some fun in photoshop. I'm going to slam it on the back of my franken tele for a while and see if I can do a bit of magic. It's a highway one body with poly dip under nitro and I don't give a shit how the back of it looks so........

If that doesn't yield any results I'm cool with leaving Asiatic deity as a possibility, I think it would be hand signals that corresponded to musical notes, it is rumored that Gods can be summoned with G, A, F, F (octave Down) C. Seriously play that riff a couple times and see if you don't feel something other-worldly. Gods typically respond with the same lick but tuned down to start at Bb. (if you don't get the reference use your googles and wikies).

But it's time to close the shop, go home and summon the Foo Dog to do my bidding!

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by CaptainCrunch » Tue May 04, 2021 8:27 pm

It was leaned against a t-shirt/NPR tote bag/large skater sticker/vinyl window decal. I have finished multiple items in nitro, it reacts to many many different things if leaned against. Maybe it was mist-coated, maybe refin over other color, whatever.

Most of these theories/conjectures are more entertaining , but the reality is some version of this. Something it rested on was reactive, and when it’s fresh nitro, EVERYTHING is reactive.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by gnoleb » Tue May 04, 2021 8:49 pm

countertext wrote:
Mon May 03, 2021 4:57 pm
I have a Strat with nitro finish which I put a couple of stickers on. When I peeled them off a few years later, they took the very topmost coat of clear off with them, leaving subtle but real ghosts of the stickers. I bet if I oversprayed the body, the imprints of the stickers would still be there.
I'm quite sure its this, as well. A few thoughts:
- I've also had this happen to me with a baja tele I bought where I placed a vinyl sticker I bought of an indigenous tribe's eagle graphic from the capilano bridge's tourist shop. I was super happy about just moving to vancouver, slapped it on the front in the space under the bridge downward to the edge. A good number of years later, I removed the sticker to sell it, and when taking pictures it would capture some of it in the light. Couldn't feel it with my fingers.
- That depiction of the guardian lion / foo dog / komainu is so crazy unique that only the earlier link in this thread is what I can find, as well. I spent a good deal of time searching for it because I actually liked it and would like that on banner or something. (I learned my lesson with stickers on guitars)
- In searching for those depictions, as a person who has an art / creative background, the style and pose are quite unique. That is nowhere near a common style (it is like a comic book style with the lines, yet the side view is an odd thing comics don't usually do for a pose picture) and is almost certainly a "draw-over" of something that wasn't in that style with comic-book style inking (and the background in the sticker is 100% an after-addition that wasn't in the original line art).
- The line art is why the black lines in the sticker show as white in the graphite rubbing. The nitro finish there is just slightly lower than the surface, so the graphite doesn't hit those lines because they are indented. Might not be able to feel that or see that, but that is why that is happening. Black absorbs the most sunlight, creating the most heat, causing the most chemical reaction. Particularly if the other part of the vinyl sticker are clear, as was the case with my eagle sticker.
- Also means it isn't from the sticker linked above, as the blacks and grays from the background and internal of the lion would have been less precise in that rendering. Which I think fits with the notion that it wasn't from that sticker (wrong size, background and line art style don't match, etc), but some other line art of just the black lines.

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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by aliendawg » Wed May 05, 2021 12:50 pm

Ok... what the hell was this thread??? Quarantine has truly affected OSG, huh?

edit: imo, OP was treated a bit harshly, but took it like a champ. I think the dragon is pretty interesting!
Last edited by aliendawg on Wed May 05, 2021 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by Debaser » Wed May 05, 2021 3:10 pm

aliendawg wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 12:50 pm
Ok... what the hell was this thread??? Quarantine has truly affected OSG, huh?
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Re: '65 AV Jazzmaster with mysterious Chinese Lion.

Post by mediocreplayer » Fri May 07, 2021 11:17 am

I agree that this thread is full of unnecessarily sour comments but I want to echo what others have said: the OP has dealt with it well and tried his best to maintain the fun "mystery" factor throughout in the face of the posters treating the topic as if it's an appraisal for an auction at Christie's.

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