Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

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SmoggyTwinkles
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Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:02 pm

Sorry, need help here.

I recently picked one of these up (love it!) and as always with these off-set designs (been playing a MIJ Jag since 1994 as my main guitar) they need work and I'm happy to do it.

But something causing me trouble is the tuners. Mine are crap, 3 of the 6 have wiggly tuning keys/posts.

I'm just starting out getting this Bass VI to be where I want it, done a nice shim, reversed the saddles on the bridge and reversed the bridge, messed with the truss rod a bit,

But I really want to put sturdier tuners on this, and I'd like to perhaps spend the ridiculous amount of money on those La Bella strings because I love flatwounds on my Jag and think I'd love them on the Bass VI as well.

So long story short, what tuners can I get that will accomodate the larger strings? I was looking at Hipshot stuff and you can request the low E to accommodate .090, well the La Bella stainless flats have a .095 low E.

Help? And thanks and happy Easter everyone.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by Debaser » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:06 pm

I used LaBellas roundwounds on my stock VM Bass VI tuners with no issues. LaBellas are great, immediate upgrade. They make the set just for the Bass VI so they taper the string ends in order to fit Kluson split shaft tuners/regular guitar tuners. Flats have the same low 'E' 0.095" outer diameter.

My advice would be to get a set of Gotoh split shafts. I personally find Gotoh splits to be the best tuners around, I use them for any build or stock replacement. I'm no bass player, so maybe heavy gauge strings are harder on tuning machines, but I'd rather replace a set every 7 years then have to ream the headstock and drill new holes.
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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sun Apr 04, 2021 3:53 pm

For any vintage-shaft tuner replacement, the answer's always Gotoh, whether you want splits or locking. Hipshot only does closed tuners with an 8.5mm shaft (which are way worse than their 10mm open-gear ones), plus you'd need new screw holes for those.

As mentioned, VI strings from Labella (and most places) are tapered to fit guitar-size tuner holes, and if you want something that's properly bass-sized that's not available as a VI string, rounds are easy enough to unwind a bit (don't even bother doing this with flats though, it's a waste of money).

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:53 pm

Wow, fantastic advice guys thank you very much!

So, any Gotoh set that is drop in or close enough? Yes I'm being a bit lazy here because the math on the post size etc etc gives me a headache, sorry about that.

Thank you so much btw. My Bass VI was a "B-stock" and so I saved $100 on it, I think it was dropped hard on the tuners or something because they are not good. I've owned many guitars in my life and never changed stock tuners, but immediately knew these ones needed replacing even though they work, they're wonky for sure.

Thanks so much again!

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by MattK » Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:52 pm

Just before you replace them - when you say "wiggly" do you mean loose, or are they bent?
For loose tuning keys, you may be able to pop the cover off by straightening the two metal tabs, then open them and tighten the screws which anchor the posts to the gears inside (put a drop of loctite or nail polish on the thread to prevent them loosening). This is usually the problem with Kluson style tuners.
For bent tuning keys you can use a small pair of vise grips or pliers to carefully bend them back, if you line them up so that the bend is in line with the neck and away from the body. Bending from other angles can stress the retainer for the tuning key and pop it out.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by Debaser » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:27 pm

SmoggyTwinkles wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:53 pm
Wow, fantastic advice guys thank you very much!

So, any Gotoh set that is drop in or close enough? Yes I'm being a bit lazy here because the math on the post size etc etc gives me a headache, sorry about that.

Thank you so much btw. My Bass VI was a "B-stock" and so I saved $100 on it, I think it was dropped hard on the tuners or something because they are not good. I've owned many guitars in my life and never changed stock tuners, but immediately knew these ones needed replacing even though they work, they're wonky for sure.

Thanks so much again!
No problem and welcome...

Gotoh make a few sets that more or less drop in. Stick with the SD91 series. They have a basic Kluson-type tuner, locking, and some variation of locking & staggered. I know there are differences between the VM line of tuners and CV, but I'm not sure which is the better bushing fit with Gotohs. You might need to keep the stock bushings to make it easier, but know the older VM line is chrome plated, the older CV line is nickel and AFAIK Gotohs only come in nickel. The CV Starcaster tuners I had were nickel so it probably works out..
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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:38 pm

Debaser wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:27 pm
SmoggyTwinkles wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 5:53 pm
Wow, fantastic advice guys thank you very much!

So, any Gotoh set that is drop in or close enough? Yes I'm being a bit lazy here because the math on the post size etc etc gives me a headache, sorry about that.

Thank you so much btw. My Bass VI was a "B-stock" and so I saved $100 on it, I think it was dropped hard on the tuners or something because they are not good. I've owned many guitars in my life and never changed stock tuners, but immediately knew these ones needed replacing even though they work, they're wonky for sure.

Thanks so much again!
No problem and welcome...

Gotoh make a few sets that more or less drop in. Stick with the SD91 series. They have a basic Kluson-type tuner, locking, and some variation of locking & staggered. I know there are differences between the VM line of tuners and CV, but I'm not sure which is the better bushing fit with Gotohs. You might need to keep the stock bushings to make it easier, but know the older VM line is chrome plated, the older CV line is nickel and AFAIK Gotohs only come in nickel. The CV Starcaster tuners I had were nickel so it probably works out..
Thanks very much. I will try and track down the SD91.

I wonder if Long & McQuade carry it. They seem to have La Bella strings. I was thinking of going into my local one (where I bought this) and seeing if I can get any favours because of the tuners being crap etc. I'll have to see. Otherwise I'll have to order them before I can do any more work on this Bass VI.

Again, thank you guys so much for the help, really appreciated!

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:45 pm

MatthewK wrote:
Sun Apr 04, 2021 6:52 pm
Just before you replace them - when you say "wiggly" do you mean loose, or are they bent?
For loose tuning keys, you may be able to pop the cover off by straightening the two metal tabs, then open them and tighten the screws which anchor the posts to the gears inside (put a drop of loctite or nail polish on the thread to prevent them loosening). This is usually the problem with Kluson style tuners.
For bent tuning keys you can use a small pair of vise grips or pliers to carefully bend them back, if you line them up so that the bend is in line with the neck and away from the body. Bending from other angles can stress the retainer for the tuning key and pop it out.
Hmmm, another great post.

I did try and pop off the cover, but I don't have fine enough tools (pliers, something! I have lots of tools but nothing that works to bend back those metal tabs to see the open gear mechanism) that can bend those tabs back to pop the cover off.

And while trying all that, is when I realized these are really crap tuning machines. And I actually think the cover is part of what keeps it together, I could be wrong though.

I'll have another go at it.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sun Apr 04, 2021 9:02 pm

If you're gonna go for Gotohs, avoid the HAP (height-adjustable) and top-locking tuners. The HAP works pretty well, but it's finicky to set up and -- while it holds up well in use -- easy to damage if you're not careful. Great if you have the patience to go slow and set it up once, and it's pretty much gonna be good for the life of the tuner.

The top-locking ones on the other hand . . . they're just bad. They're a pain to lock, because unlike the PRS top-lockers, you need tools and can't do it by hand, and the auto-locking they advertise straight up doesn't work if you break a string, and honestly barely works to start with. If you're gonna go locking, get the Magnum-Lock ones with the thumbwheel (MG-T is what they call them IIRC). No fussing, no futzing, they're barely any heavier than the average split-shaft set, and they're tied with the open-gear Hipshots for my favorite tuner (Gotohs for 8.5mm vintage posts, Hipshots for 10mm modern).

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by CaptainCrunch » Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:23 am

FWIW, I have CV Bass VI, and while the stock tuners felt a teensy janky, I didn’t bother replacing them. I did Labella flats, Staytrem bridge, AVRI trem, and a good setup and fret polish. I could have gotten away with just the first and last, to be honest. Once you have the Labellas on, you seriously don’t need to worry about tuning up a new set for decades.

Maybe in 2040 or so I’ll worry about replacing them at my next string change, and I would use the excellent Gotohs recommended, but as of right now it’s solving a problem that only exists in my head.

Same applies to the pickups- like, it’s a Squier, it seems like I should swap them on principle? But once I played it for a while I realized they really were good enough unless I’m looking for something to be unhappy about.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by MattK » Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:55 am

Any slot-end Kluson clone is basically locking anyway, if used correctly. I have, maybe ... 12 guitars with Gotoh and noname Klusons, including a Fender Japan VI, all absolutely rock stable pretty much from the moment I tune them to pitch. I've been lucky a few times on eBay, finding used nice quality clones for reasonable money

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Mon Apr 05, 2021 8:13 am

CaptainCrunch wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 12:23 am
FWIW, I have CV Bass VI, and while the stock tuners felt a teensy janky, I didn’t bother replacing them. I did Labella flats, Staytrem bridge, AVRI trem, and a good setup and fret polish. I could have gotten away with just the first and last, to be honest. Once you have the Labellas on, you seriously don’t need to worry about tuning up a new set for decades.

Maybe in 2040 or so I’ll worry about replacing them at my next string change, and I would use the excellent Gotohs recommended, but as of right now it’s solving a problem that only exists in my head.

Same applies to the pickups- like, it’s a Squier, it seems like I should swap them on principle? But once I played it for a while I realized they really were good enough unless I’m looking for something to be unhappy about.
I think the pickups on mine sound great.

But.......Curt Novak makes a set for the Bass VI, I've had his Jaguar pickups for 20 years, they're amazing.

Eventually I will make that upgrade because as good as the Squier's sound, I know the Novaks will sound even better. But no rush to do that when I haven't even got it set-up how I want at this point.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by SmoggyTwinkles » Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:26 am

Ok well I went ahead and ordered GOTOH SD91 MG-T Thumbwheel Locking Tuning Machine along with 10mm bushings.

Hopefully it works out well.

Then a little more set-up, and then I guess I'll put those LaBella flatwounds on. That'll probably be a couple weeks from now. Thanks for all the help.

And sorry for not posting this in the tech/repair forum which is probably where I should have put this (first post here, sorry!)

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by HarlowTheFish » Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:46 pm

SmoggyTwinkles wrote:
Mon Apr 05, 2021 9:26 am
Ok well I went ahead and ordered GOTOH SD91 MG-T Thumbwheel Locking Tuning Machine along with 10mm bushings.

Hopefully it works out well.

Then a little more set-up, and then I guess I'll put those LaBella flatwounds on. That'll probably be a couple weeks from now. Thanks for all the help.

And sorry for not posting this in the tech/repair forum which is probably where I should have put this (first post here, sorry!)
You're all good dude, welcome to the forum!

I have a set of those (with the white plastic buttons) on my Mustang, and they're easily my favorites out of what I have (modern Gotohs on my Ibby Prestige, Sperzels on my ESP, and Hipshots on my Ormsby, plus some headless stuff). You'll have a great time with them, just give the flats a tiny bit more slack so they're not under a ton of pressure at a tiny point -- about a half-turn around the tuner should be good, which is a bit more than you'd normally want with a locker -- or you might be hurting their longevity a bit.

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Re: Squier Bass VI CV tuner upgrade options?

Post by Debaser » Mon Apr 05, 2021 3:07 pm

Wait, maybe I missed it but where did 10mm bushings come in?
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