The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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HarlowTheFish
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by HarlowTheFish » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:19 am

Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:15 pm
I’m into the idea of stuff looking like it’s the old stuff but I’m not even gonna be givin a fuck about a 9.5” fretboard or a Mustang bridge or number of pick guard screws or whatever
"PVC and ABS kill guitars, the tone is in the Bakelite"
"the square corner on the body enhances resonance, the rounded corner adds too much weight"
"too many pickguard screws stiffens it too much and doesn't let the guitar breathe"
-TDPRI probably

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timiscott
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by timiscott » Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:41 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 9:21 pm
timiscott wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:54 am
To be honest, I hate nitro. I've got an AV65 Jm that 's designed to chip every time I move it and I hate the faux mojo thing
Wait, are the AV65 finishes that fragile too?

'Nitro' based finishes can be very resilient (both my AVRI and GuitarMill finished guitar would require a heavy impact to cause the finish to chip), so this must be a deliberate thing.
I must have a duffer. I'm about three years(?) in with mine (Oly White AV65 JM) and the corner where my right arm rubs against it is already wearing through. It's definitely softer than my poly guitars, dinks really easily and, to be frank, I'd think twice before buying another nitro finish. If I remember rightly, these guitars were 'flash coated' which might explain it.

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StrangeIdols
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by StrangeIdols » Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:43 am

timiscott wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:54 am
To be honest, I hate nitro. I've got an AV65 Jm that 's designed to chip every time I move it and I hate the faux mojo thing. No offence to anyone, but I do wonder if it's a middle class thing. I've never had much of anything that was worth much and, when I do get something cool, I tend to want to keep it pristine.

I only saw the JAMC once, on the Rollercoaster tour with MBV, Blur and Dinosaur Jr. I went down to Brixton thinking they were has-beens. They blew everyone else off-stage that night as they sooo knew what they were doing and how to do it.
I feel that, I don't buy into the whole nitro letting guitars breathe thing, besides doesn't fender (with some exceptions, custom shop and thin skin) shoot a poly undercoat? I try and keep my jazzmaster as nice as possible, but it's taken on some light wear just from pretty energetic playing, which I'm still a bit torn on

That rollercoaster tour is a tour I wish I could've seen, I remember hearing about it a couple of years ago and getting gutted that a tour like that probably won't ever happen again, unbelievably jealous you saw that!

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timiscott
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by timiscott » Sun Feb 07, 2021 5:12 am

It was a good gig. I went for MBV and Dinosaur but JAMC were fantastic. Macis raced through 'Freak Scene' as quickly as he could and it seemed clear he was really bored with it! MBV were what they were back then: a tumble drier fighting with a digger in a wind tunnel. I saw them at the South Bank the year before last (I think) and PAs these days are just better at coping with that kind of noise. The Reids just seemed to know how to deliver live and I was really shocked at how good they were. I feel really old now! To make it worse, I had the first few JAMC singles. The really early ones were on Creation and came in a paper sleeve folded inside a seven-inch, disc-sized plastic bag.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by StrangeIdols » Sun Feb 07, 2021 11:33 am

That sounds amazing, I've seen the Mary chain once before and they were incredible live, had tickets for the original barrowlands date of the darklands tour but that got pushed back to the end of this year, closest I got to hearing them live was picking up an original pressing of Psychocandy on eBay!

An interesting thing about those 7" singles that you might or might not know, according to barbed wire kisses, creation was so strapped for cash they couldn't afford to hire folk to pack them, so the band's they signed did them, there's a fair chance one or more of those 7"s was packed by the reids themselves!

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by ToneFerDayz!!1! » Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:33 pm

timiscott wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:54 am
To be honest, I hate nitro. I've got an AV65 Jm that 's designed to chip every time I move it and I hate the faux mojo thing. No offence to anyone, but I do wonder if it's a middle class thing. I've never had much of anything that was worth much and, when I do get something cool, I tend to want to keep it pristine.

I only saw the JAMC once, on the Rollercoaster tour with MBV, Blur and Dinosaur Jr. I went down to Brixton thinking they were has-beens. They blew everyone else off-stage that night as they sooo knew what they were doing and how to do it.
Speaking on the JAMC/Gretsch AND nitrofinish tip, I've got a 6210-1959LTV and man, the clear coat on those is insanely fragile. I bought it used, so it came with a fair amount of checking and chips, but I'm debating whether it's even worth getting my luthier to fill the chips. :unsure: It's supposedly an incredibly faithful recreation of the 1959 6120s, save the TV Jones pickups, so it's got all the pluses AND minuses of a vintage Gretsch. I love it, but I can see lots of good arguments for getting one of the more "modern" Gretsch hollowbodies instead.

Also, didn't William spraypaint his country gentleman black, similar to what Joe Strummer did? :w00t:

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by StrangeIdols » Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:45 pm

ToneFerDayz!!1! wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 12:33 pm
Also, didn't William spraypaint his country gentleman black, similar to what Joe Strummer did? :w00t:
He did! On the set of their TOTP appearance apparently! He's supposed to have got a disapproving look from David Gilmour for it who was on the show at the same time, can't help but wonder if that inspired his hatred of rock n roll

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:10 pm

StrangeIdols wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:43 am
timiscott wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 6:54 am
To be honest, I hate nitro. I've got an AV65 Jm that 's designed to chip every time I move it and I hate the faux mojo thing. No offence to anyone, but I do wonder if it's a middle class thing. I've never had much of anything that was worth much and, when I do get something cool, I tend to want to keep it pristine.

I only saw the JAMC once, on the Rollercoaster tour with MBV, Blur and Dinosaur Jr. I went down to Brixton thinking they were has-beens. They blew everyone else off-stage that night as they sooo knew what they were doing and how to do it.
I feel that, I don't buy into the whole nitro letting guitars breathe thing, besides doesn't fender (with some exceptions, custom shop and thin skin) shoot a poly undercoat? I try and keep my jazzmaster as nice as possible, but it's taken on some light wear just from pretty energetic playing, which I'm still a bit torn on

That rollercoaster tour is a tour I wish I could've seen, I remember hearing about it a couple of years ago and getting gutted that a tour like that probably won't ever happen again, unbelievably jealous you saw that!
Yeah that’s fuckin wild. I wasn’t ever a Blur fan but MBV and Dinosaur touring together is bananas

I was always sad about being too young to see the OOPS TOUR but watching DJR and MBV on one show would have been insane, let alone Jesus and Mary Chain holy shit that’s incredible

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by ToneFerDayz!!1! » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:15 pm

At my old alma mater, the summer concert they put on one year was Ride, Jesus and Mary Chain, and a young Spiritualized. :w00t: :-* :?

Sadly, that was about 10 years before I got there.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:18 pm

HarlowTheFish wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:19 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:15 pm
I’m into the idea of stuff looking like it’s the old stuff but I’m not even gonna be givin a fuck about a 9.5” fretboard or a Mustang bridge or number of pick guard screws or whatever
"PVC and ABS kill guitars, the tone is in the Bakelite"
"the square corner on the body enhances resonance, the rounded corner adds too much weight"
"too many pickguard screws stiffens it too much and doesn't let the guitar breathe"
-TDPRI probably
So much of this shit is like immediately stupid sounding to even a layman I imagine. Maybe I’m just a traditionalist but I’m 120% sure ain’t no wood fuckin breathing after it’s cut down in the woods then cut into a bunch of small pieces then baked or dried or whatever then glued back together and dipped in plastic and covered in lacquer. Motherfucker, that tree has been dead for years and it ain’t breathin no more GTFO

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by ToneFerDayz!!1! » Mon Feb 08, 2021 12:53 am

Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:18 pm
HarlowTheFish wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:19 am
Mechanical Birds wrote:
Sat Feb 06, 2021 11:15 pm
I’m into the idea of stuff looking like it’s the old stuff but I’m not even gonna be givin a fuck about a 9.5” fretboard or a Mustang bridge or number of pick guard screws or whatever
"PVC and ABS kill guitars, the tone is in the Bakelite"
"the square corner on the body enhances resonance, the rounded corner adds too much weight"
"too many pickguard screws stiffens it too much and doesn't let the guitar breathe"
-TDPRI probably
So much of this shit is like immediately stupid sounding to even a layman I imagine. Maybe I’m just a traditionalist but I’m 120% sure ain’t no wood fuckin breathing after it’s cut down in the woods then cut into a bunch of small pieces then baked or dried or whatever then glued back together and dipped in plastic and covered in lacquer. Motherfucker, that tree has been dead for years and it ain’t breathin no more GTFO
But if my guitar isn't possessed by a varying amount of ghost trees, how will it be more special than the rest?

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timiscott
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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by timiscott » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:54 am

Now that you've put it like it, claims to being able to hear wood breathe do sound somewhat unlikely.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by timiscott » Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:58 am

ToneFerDayz!!1! wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:15 pm
At my old alma mater, the summer concert they put on one year was Ride, Jesus and Mary Chain, and a young Spiritualized. :w00t: :-* :?

Sadly, that was about 10 years before I got there.
Oddly, I was in a band that supported Ride on one of the gigs on their first tour. They were really nice guys and let me borrow their guitar amp. I made it sound like a chimp was banging a wrench at the bottom of a well. Oddly, they got good sounds out of it... More oddly, I'd say that Loop were one of the best live bands out of all that lot. Like the Mary Chain, I was totally surprised at just how good they were in the flesh. Didn't quite translate onto vinyl though.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by ToneFerDayz!!1! » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:28 am

timiscott wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:58 am
ToneFerDayz!!1! wrote:
Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:15 pm
At my old alma mater, the summer concert they put on one year was Ride, Jesus and Mary Chain, and a young Spiritualized. :w00t: :-* :?

Sadly, that was about 10 years before I got there.
Oddly, I was in a band that supported Ride on one of the gigs on their first tour. They were really nice guys and let me borrow their guitar amp. I made it sound like a chimp was banging a wrench at the bottom of a well. Oddly, they got good sounds out of it... More oddly, I'd say that Loop were one of the best live bands out of all that lot. Like the Mary Chain, I was totally surprised at just how good they were in the flesh. Didn't quite translate onto vinyl though.
OT here, but I think those Loop records are killer, if slightly marred by weirdly tinny production. A Gilded Eternity is a forgotten classic.

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Re: The 'Vintage Correct' Obsession

Post by ToneFerDayz!!1! » Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:31 am

timiscott wrote:
Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:54 am
Now that you've put it like it, claims to being able to hear wood breathe do sound somewhat unlikely.
There might be something to different finishes allowing wood to resonate differently, but I’m not sure I can hear the difference. It’s not like the difference between tubes and solid state or analog vs digital in my book. More like people who can hear slightly different voltages or what different brands of pots sound like- I’m sure it’ll make some difference somewhere, but that distinction is hyped up by conventional wisdom and people hearing what they want to hear to a degree.

That said there are always exceptions to any conventional wisdom. For example, I have an early 70’s Gibson J-50 which the internet dogs on, but it’s without a doubt one of the most acoustically resonant dreadnoughts I’ve ever played. Or, in the realm of offsets, how those mid-90s Japanese Jazzmasters seem to have had a bit more sustain and punch than the AVRIs despite the non-vintage correct body wood.

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