Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

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mrventures
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by mrventures » Sat May 07, 2022 12:05 am

TheCappy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:29 am
It most probably is. That spring steel is digging into the brass. Why he didn’t drill the yellow one out too, I don’t understand. There is a reason they should sit flush onto the plunger.
Well, they seem like they are pretty smart guys, so I'm sure they'll figure it out and (hopefully) release a follow-up video with more info.

I wonder how much a spike in sales the eBay seller is seeing, and if he knows about the video!

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ryanthellama » Sat May 07, 2022 8:11 am

TheCappy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:29 am
It most probably is. That spring steel is digging into the brass. Why he didn’t drill the yellow one out too, I don’t understand. There is a reason they should sit flush onto the plunger.

I imagine he didn’t drill the yellow one out since the tension was good with it to begin with and drilling it out would have changed that. I wonder if ordering a higher tension spring (the blue one from that seller) and drilling it out to fit the plunger would work as well as the yellow and eliminate the knocking.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by TheCappy » Sat May 07, 2022 8:19 am

ryanthellama wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:11 am
TheCappy wrote:
Fri May 06, 2022 9:29 am
It most probably is. That spring steel is digging into the brass. Why he didn’t drill the yellow one out too, I don’t understand. There is a reason they should sit flush onto the plunger.

I imagine he didn’t drill the yellow one out since the tension was good with it to begin with and drilling it out would have changed that. I wonder if ordering a higher tension spring (the blue one from that seller) and drilling it out to fit the plunger would work as well as the yellow and eliminate the knocking.
I think just a longer yellow will work. If I still had my am pro II I would roll the dice.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ryanthellama » Sat May 07, 2022 10:05 am

TheCappy wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:19 am
I think just a longer yellow will work. If I still had my am pro II I would roll the dice.
Like get a longer yellow and just drill out just the bottom section to fit? I might pick up a few of these and play around, so can try to see what works and what doesn’t.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by TheCappy » Sat May 07, 2022 10:39 am

ryanthellama wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 10:05 am
TheCappy wrote:
Sat May 07, 2022 8:19 am
I think just a longer yellow will work. If I still had my am pro II I would roll the dice.
Like get a longer yellow and just drill out just the bottom section to fit? I might pick up a few of these and play around, so can try to see what works and what doesn’t.
Yes exactly. Get the next length up yellow spring, drill it out so it sits flush. I can’t remember what the stock fender length is maybe 24mm. They did drill out the green spring and he said it makes it a lower spring rate.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by bodhi » Mon May 09, 2022 3:53 am

My dang renovation is stretching on, but I'm willing to try to figure out the spring tensions (for science!) once I get around to it...

Also happen to have one of the cheap asian jazzmaster tremolos bought years and years ago that I found in my parts bin that seems to have a similar or even stiffer spring than the Mastery. Only tested by finger pressure and it was by memory in comparison, but best case I'm sorted myself... Should have a couple of different springs to test for comparison once we get there, eg. random asian JM spring, used Mastery, new Mastery, barely used ARVI, 2022 Panorama spring.
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by bodhi » Tue May 10, 2022 9:40 am

Having finally watched the video through, I wonder if it would be reasonable to make the collet itself a bit more narrow rather than drilling into the spring? I'm fairly sure I've seen someone do that for some trem system that was binding to the spring on some thread here...
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Play_at_Guitar » Wed May 11, 2022 5:21 pm

Just got notice from GC that my account has been charged for a new AMPRO II Dark Night JM and after calling them, they said it will be "coming in" May 18th. Now I did not ask them if that means it will be then shipped to me from GC, but I guess I will find out in a week or two. Will then check to see if Fender changed the spring to allow for the use of heavier gauge strings. For me, I hope not as I like 9s, but will gladly exchange it if it is a new stiffer one. I ordered it December 22, 2021, so if it does come in, it will have taken almost the same amount of time as for my Spark amp to be delivered 2 years ago.
I just hope I can play guitars in my next life! Maybe then there will be time to actually get good!

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ZiggyZipgun » Wed May 25, 2022 4:26 am

I bought a Panorama to put on my Bass VI, but after watching the video I quickly looked around for other die springs. McMaster-Carr has quite a selection, also color-coded, inch and metric, and they call out the ISO spec for metric die springs. They don't provide a tolerance for the inner diameters, but they do offer slightly larger springs that fit 3/8" and 10mm shafts. I would guess that Fender USA works in inches and start there.

https://www.mcmaster.com/die-springs/

The ones from Ebay don't appear to follow the same color codes, and they don't specify the spring rate.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by JSett » Wed May 25, 2022 1:04 pm

Someone needs to get to an old vintage car/motorbike parts dealer and track down the right spring. Pretty sure Fender would possibly have just used a stock Chevy/Ford engine valve spring in the originals IMHO as they would have been cheap to source.
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ZiggyZipgun » Thu May 26, 2022 3:50 am

I measured the spring retainers yesterday:

Panorama:
0.475 in [12.07 mm], 0.625 in [15.88 mm] base
(This one is tapered, which is the only reason the 8 mm ID die springs from the Ebay listing fit at all.)

Squier Classic Vibe:
0.394 in [10 mm], 0.591 in [15 mm] base
(This one is cylindrical.)

Note that the spring needs to fit within a 0.630 in [16 mm] clearance hole in the lower plate.

Also note that the Squier uses metric thread screws, so keep the screws with their original retainers.

With that said, I swapped the stock spring, screw, and retainer from the Squier into the Panorama on my Bass VI, and it works! I'll point out that mine is strung a little differently for all-fifths and similar tunings, so the low E is .095 but the higher strings are much lighter than a stock VI. On lower tension settings it will certainly drop the pitch 5 or 6 semitones, but cranked up for a stiffer feel it will still drop 2 or 3 semitones. My only complaint now is that I wish it had a shorter Strat arm!

This is the first instrument I've had with the Jazzmaster/Jaguar vibrato, but I've noticed it's very similar to the one in my first gen Parker Fly Deluxe, which used a crazy plate spring.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ZiggyZipgun » Thu Jun 02, 2022 2:31 am

ZiggyZipgun wrote:
Thu May 26, 2022 3:50 am
My only complaint now is that I wish it had a shorter Strat arm!
This was an easy fix - the stock arm for the American Professional Series Strat fits the Panorama perfectly.

The spring and retainer from the original Squier vibrato are still working very well in the Panorama. I know I mentioned that I'm using custom string gauges, but the factory spring couldn't even raise it up enough to touch the locking feature.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by dudecoolhat » Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:45 am

Has anyone had any luck/tried reaching out to fender about sending out a replacement spring? It sounds like the springs from all of their other JM vibratos will work. Might be as simple as stealing a few from what would've otherwise gone into an AO or Vintera.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by flysky578 » Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:56 pm

dudecoolhat wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 10:45 am
Has anyone had any luck/tried reaching out to fender about sending out a replacement spring? It sounds like the springs from all of their other JM vibratos will work. Might be as simple as stealing a few from what would've otherwise gone into an AO or Vintera.
They sadly use the same spring for the Panorama as the Avri Usa Tremolo which is used for the AO. They are both listed in the schematics as the same part nr.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ryanthellama » Thu Jul 07, 2022 9:04 pm

flysky578 wrote:
Thu Jul 07, 2022 8:56 pm
They sadly use the same spring for the Panorama as the Avri Usa Tremolo which is used for the AO. They are both listed in the schematics as the same part nr.
In addition to this, in messing around with mine further, it seems that it’s not necessarily a given that import springs will work either. I get maybe a tiny bit more range using my 60th JM or Squier springs, but it’s still not fully there.

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