Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Horsefeather
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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Horsefeather » Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:26 pm

The Panorama is really a kluge on the original design. Not surprising that it's plagued with issues.

Anyone who really wants to go Steve Vai on the Jazzmaster ought to drop in a Kahler and be done with it.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by RoséBear » Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:58 pm

tammyw wrote:
Thu Aug 11, 2022 11:06 pm
ryanthellama wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 9:23 pm
RoséBear wrote:
Sun Aug 07, 2022 7:51 pm
I saw that Ryan from 60 cycle hum said he ended up using washers on his panorama instead of drilling out the spring.
I can’t quite picture what he means by this. Anyone know how this would work?
I think he means you'd slide a couple big washers (was it 7/16" or 1/2" I.D?) on to the nut before the spring, so the spring would sit up higher where the tapered nut is narrower.

I tried some other die springs, and I guess they were functional with 11's, but I wasn't really satisfied with it.

Actually, after all the wailing I've done on the arm, I don't think I like the collet on these either. It's possible to push the arm in too far, and then the end of the arm can gouge the bottom of the cavity. When the arm isn't pushed in too far, you can still slam the collet block into the bottom of the cavity. There's quite a bit of play between the arm and the collet now, too. And the arm itself flexes more than I'd like. It makes me want to build a new collet block and arm all together, but it's a long way down on my list of projects.

For now I'm planning to go back to the stock spring and set it up with super light strings, it's fine like that and I like light strings.
Honestly I’ve been wrestling with this trem for like two years now and after everything I’m pretty done. I’ll probably just order a mastery or descendant at this point (if I wasn’t a lefty I’d get an AVRI).

Truthfully, I played it with light strings for some time and it felt okay but I could NOT get it to stay in tune nearly as well than with 11s. Just put 11s back on and it’s now wonderful

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Fri Aug 12, 2022 6:06 pm

Horsefeather wrote:
Fri Aug 12, 2022 12:26 pm
The Panorama is really a kluge on the original design. Not surprising that it's plagued with issues.

Anyone who really wants to go Steve Vai on the Jazzmaster ought to drop in a Kahler and be done with it.
Just sucks that Fender isn’t fixing it. I divebomb using it sometimes but I still use it for the typical offset flutter. I really hate traditionalist attitudes that certain guitars can only do certain things so something like the Panorama is up my alley. I’m having no problems with mine so far, I’m just concerned for other people. I agree that there are certainly some design flaws. I may just wait and see for the new Halon trem, considering it has more range than the Panorama. Also Kahlers look ugly af lmao

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:18 am

Seeing as I’m new to Jazzmasters, I don’t have any experience with these trems from other manufacturers. Are they all drop-in replacements, or will it require some additional routing to make it fit?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by Vendetagainst » Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:41 am

deastman wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 12:18 am
Seeing as I’m new to Jazzmasters, I don’t have any experience with these trems from other manufacturers. Are they all drop-in replacements, or will it require some additional routing to make it fit?
Yup, the Descendant, Mastery and Halon trems all drop in no problem, no routing required.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by gibs » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:33 am

Pay attention to the mastery, there’s two versions, ones a drop in for fender offsets, the other seems to take the plate and rotate 180 degrees for a different appearance, that one is more for people who build there own offsets and or non fender companies. It might fit in a fender, but the screws will need redrilled and you’ll probably have some open holes left behind.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Sun Aug 14, 2022 12:49 am

gibs wrote:
Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:33 am
Pay attention to the mastery, there’s two versions, ones a drop in for fender offsets, the other seems to take the plate and rotate 180 degrees for a different appearance, that one is more for people who build there own offsets and or non fender companies. It might fit in a fender, but the screws will need redrilled and you’ll probably have some open holes left behind.
Thanks for the tip! I do see the two versions in the shop. For now I’ll wait and see how I get on with the Panorama and if any better solution presents itself. Otherwise, I’ll probably end up swapping it out.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:32 pm

Actually now that I finally have my shiny new AM Pro II Jazzmaster in my hands, there seems to be something wrong with the Panorama. I can only bend the low E string down a whole step to D. It seems identical regardless of which position the trem lock is in. Maybe a routing defect so the lock can’t disengage?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by gibs » Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:33 pm

deastman wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:32 pm
Actually now that I finally have my shiny new AM Pro II Jazzmaster in my hands, there seems to be something wrong with the Panorama. I can only bend the low E string down a whole step to D. It seems identical regardless of which position the trem lock is in. Maybe a routing defect so the lock can’t disengage?
You haven’t read this thread have you?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by deastman » Mon Aug 15, 2022 11:51 pm

gibs wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 9:33 pm
deastman wrote:
Mon Aug 15, 2022 5:32 pm
Actually now that I finally have my shiny new AM Pro II Jazzmaster in my hands, there seems to be something wrong with the Panorama. I can only bend the low E string down a whole step to D. It seems identical regardless of which position the trem lock is in. Maybe a routing defect so the lock can’t disengage?
You haven’t read this thread have you?
Edit:
No, I had not read the entire thread before, but now I have. I think you’re misreading the problem I was describing. This isn’t the spring problem when using heavier strings. I’m still using the 9’s that came on the guitar direct from the factory. In the end, I was able to get it to work by repeated forceful jiggling of the trem lock back and forth and also exerting a bit more force on the arm than I normally would have. Something in there had been blocking the lock from disengaging, but now it’s working as intended. Problem solved.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by tammyw » Tue Aug 16, 2022 2:47 am

Well, the "lock" never stops it from going down, it only prevents pulling up (to prevent the spring tension from pulling the remaining strings out of tune after a string break). Of course something could have been catching on something else, probably the ground wire or something.
All pain and troubles melted away like lemon drops beyond the contrails across the sky.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by RoséBear » Mon Sep 26, 2022 5:39 am

So it’s been a few months and I altogether just switched to the Descendant vibrato. I did recently though, replace the panorama spring with the descendant spring. It’s not divebombing but it’s working much more like it should. I can get around a C with 11s.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by ZiggyZipgun » Mon Sep 26, 2022 7:45 pm

Has anyone else tried using the Squier spring and retainer? Mine works great on the Bass VI.

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by tommyshell » Mon Oct 31, 2022 7:22 pm

I recently switched back to the stock spring (from an all parts replacement, which initially seemed stiffer but when broken in was basically the same) and went a shade lighter on my string set, moving from 11-52 (11,15,18,30,42,52) down to EB Mega Slinky 10.5-48 (10.5,13.5,17.5,28,38,48).
With the 11s I was limited on the low E dropping only a whole tone to D before bottoming out, high e only to D#. Moving down a smidge has made a considerable difference to the accessible range - I can get the low E down to C, and high e down to somewhere between C# and D. To me the 10.5s feel like a useful halfway house between 10s and 11s, feeling closer to 11s under my fingers tone and stability-wise but with the bend range of 10s. Might help others to pick a half gauge set lighter than their usual for to mitigate their own Panorama Trem lack of range?

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Re: Fender "Panorama" Tremolo System -- American Performer II Jazzmaster

Post by RaistMagus » Sun Jan 08, 2023 11:35 am

I'm wondering if and by how much the panorama is heavier than the original. They have added some massive metal blocks, one to control the trem arm tightness and some for the pivoting. If anyone has it open, can you check the weight and the material of these blocks?

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