OffsetGuitars.com

Everything I've heard and read about the AO series is that they're great guitars. But I wouldn't buy one because I'm someone who can't afford actual vintage guitars, but likes the idea of playing a guitar that is as close as possible to what they were like when they came out. That the 60s Garage and Surf bands I enjoy listening to were playing. Even if I'm personally comfortable with modern necks, that just isn't what I'm looking for in that series. I have an AV65 Jaguar, and like the idea of upgrading my Vintera Jazzmaster to a similar vintage spec American one in the future.

What I don't understand is why the American vintage series (whatever name it's given) doesn't have both a Vintage spec model and a Modified model like the Vinteras. Instead of alienating roughly half the potential buyers each refresh by either going with the vintage spec 7.25 neck etc, or the 9.5 version. Surely they should have figured out by now that for a big chunk of their buyers it isn't about what specs they personally prefer the feel or sound of, it's about what were the specs for the era the guitar is aiming for. And there's another important chunk who want a guitar that still closely reflects the era, but has some of the more modern specs they prefer. The Mexican line gets it. Why doesn't the American line get it too?

i just picked up an AO Jazzmaster yesterday at a local shop. the store owner gave me a pretty decent deal on it.

the rosewood looked and felt a little dry but i'd say it is within expectations for Fender production line guitars. no issues with neck alignment, nut, or mechanical tolerances. it is put together pretty well - if nothing else

this is the first JM i have ever received that shipped with the old style vintage bridge, and i gotta say i really don't hate it. i feel like it has a unique sound.

i bought it sight unseen and i had basically planned on getting stuck with a heavy boat anchor - esque example but the weight on this thing is totally reasonable. my 58 Fender Custom Shop JM probably weighs just a few shots of vodka more. also noteworthy: the lacquer feels different to me between CS and AO guitars.

if i had to spend the money again, i probably would have purchased 3 American Original guitars and then had a reputable guitar tech put a ton of labor into each of them to get everything just absolutely perfect. i think the AO series, as Fender is shipping them, seems to be 80 - 85 percent of the way there already. maybe if you run the racks, you can find one that is absolutely flawless, but the AO series is getting scarce now.

as someone said earlier, Fender is phasing these out, so if you want to snatch one up, you're probably better off buying it now rather than waiting.

Downsman wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:13 am

Everything I've heard and read about the AO series is that they're great guitars. But I wouldn't buy one because I'm someone who can't afford actual vintage guitars, but likes the idea of playing a guitar that is as close as possible to what they were like when they came out. That the 60s Garage and Surf bands I enjoy listening to were playing. Even if I'm personally comfortable with modern necks, that just isn't what I'm looking for in that series. I have an AV65 Jaguar, and like the idea of upgrading my Vintera Jazzmaster to a similar vintage spec American one in the future.

What I don't understand is why the American vintage series (whatever name it's given) doesn't have both a Vintage spec model and a Modified model like the Vinteras. Instead of alienating roughly half the potential buyers each refresh by either going with the vintage spec 7.25 neck etc, or the 9.5 version. Surely they should have figured out by now that for a big chunk of their buyers it isn't about what specs they personally prefer the feel or sound of, it's about what were the specs for the era the guitar is aiming for. And there's another important chunk who want a guitar that still closely reflects the era, but has some of the more modern specs they prefer. The Mexican line gets it. Why doesn't the American line get it too?

The AO Jaguar basically IS the AV65 Jaguar. It doesn't have a modern neck. It still has the 60's C shape and taper. ALL they changed was the fretboard radius to 9.5" and taller frets. That's it. Modern necks are slimmer and have next to no taper and in recent years the push has been to even flatter and compound radius on modern necks.

tamerofbantha wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 3:35 am

if i had to spend the money again, i probably would have purchased 3 American Original guitars and then had a reputable guitar tech put a ton of labor into each of them to get everything just absolutely perfect. i think the AO series, as Fender is shipping them, seems to be 80 - 85 percent of the way there already. maybe if you run the racks, you can find one that is absolutely flawless, but the AO series is getting scarce now.

Exactly what my buddy who owns both a CS Strat and Tele said to me. He's played my AO's at he said if he didn't already have his CS guitars he'd buy an AO instead. I'm not going to say they're equal or anything, but when you look at it from a value for dollar perspective the AO is basically the CS without the "hand made" pedigree and relic bells and whistles.

Powdered Toast Man wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:10 am

The AO Jaguar basically IS the AV65 Jaguar. It doesn't have a modern neck. It still has the 60's C shape and taper. ALL they changed was the fretboard radius to 9.5" and taller frets. That's it. Modern necks are slimmer and have next to no taper and in recent years the push has been to even flatter and compound radius on modern necks.

Absolutely, I get it. I know my view is irrational and not based on playability at all. I have 9.5 and 7.25 guitars and while I prefer 7.25 it's marginal and not a deal breaker in any other situation. I find I prefer vintage frets, but also not remotely a deal breaker. I just want to be able to buy an American made guitar that's as close as possible to the specs it would have had in the era it's based on. I feel the AV/AO line should always offer that as an option. But I also know there are lots of people where 7.25 is a deal breaker and makes sense to me to cater to them as well by doing what the Mexican line does. I had a Baja Telecaster (what became the Vintera Modified) with 50s inspired specs, but 9.5 fretboard and switching that added series and out of phase options. It was great. But they also have a close to fully vintage spec model. Everyone's a winner

sunburster wrote: ↑

Wed Jul 14, 2021 5:20 pm

adamrobertt wrote: ↑

Tue Jul 13, 2021 1:27 pm

A 9.5'' board really doesn't feel that different from a 7.25'' board.

It does to me. I really like my Ric 360 with the 10" radius, but I definitely prefer my AVRIs with their 7.25".

The frets really aren't that much bigger, either.

Yes they are. I really do not like tall frets on any guitar and won't buy a guitar that has them. Feels like railroad tracks under my fingers.

Nitro isn't some magic elixir that is required for good tone (although the AO series is finished in nitro as far as I know).

Agreed here. I only like nitro for the feel and look of it (including how it ages). But I don't think it has anything to do with the sound.

But sure, maybe if you hold out for a guitar with the exact same specs as your fav guitar hero from the 60s you'll magically become him.

It's really not about that at all (and what's with all the snarkiness??). It's about guitar necks you find the most comfortable to play. You prefer 9.5" and tall frets, I prefer 7.25" and small/vintage frets. Some people prefer other specs. Other people do not have a preference and like pretty much any neck. Simple as that. I've played enough guitars over the past 25 years to know what I prefer by now. But I'm not going to rag on you for liking neck specs different from the ones I prefer.

I actually don't prefer 9.5'' over anything in particular. I have guitars with 7.25'', 9.5'', 10'', 12'', and 14'' radiuses and they're all comfortable to me in their own ways. Also frets spanning from vintage to jumbo.

My main neck preference is that they not be too thin, but even then I'm not super particular. Gimme a chunky C or V and I'm most happy, but I have thin necked guitars too. I think about it for the first 10 seconds when I pick it up, and then I forget.

And it's my God given right to be snarky on the internet. If you don't like it then maybe you can go to the 7.25'' radius internet where everyone is always genuine and polite.

It just occurred to me that the AO seems based off of the Dave's Thin Skins.

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:42 pm

It just occurred to me that the AO seems based off of the Dave's Thin Skins.

Interesting. I never would have put that together but it seems so clear in hindsight.

Powdered Toast Man wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:10 am

The AO Jaguar basically IS the AV65 Jaguar. It doesn't have a modern neck. It still has the 60's C shape and taper. ALL they changed was the fretboard radius to 9.5" and taller frets. That's it.

Well, the AV65 also has a pure nitro finish, with the AO they have a poly undercoat like the older AVRI62s. There is a difference in feel (and eventual wear/aging). I prefer the AV65 over my AVRI62 which also has the poly undercoat.

Also the AO Jags come with the 62 pickups instead of the 65s, for some weird reason.

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:42 pm

It just occurred to me that the AO seems based off of the Dave's Thin Skins.

Just missing that 'thin skin' finish.

sunburster wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:06 pm

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:42 pm

It just occurred to me that the AO seems based off of the Dave's Thin Skins.

Just missing that 'thin skin' finish.

Are they, though? The Thin Skin line was first introduced and named during the AVRI era. I remember when they changed to the AV65s, they made mention of how much thinner the finish was, and they didn't make it any thicker for the AOs.

They've just been doing the "thin skin" on everything for the last 8 years or however long its been as far as I'm aware, but Dave's has kept the name going for those runs because they established a niche and some brand recognition.

If AOs have a poly undercoat, maybe that's the one difference from the Thin Skins, but the AV65s definitely had the same thin nitro finish.

Also, nobody should be worried about poly undercoats. Fender covered all those 60's pre-CBS bodies in Fullerplast before painting, which fits the "poly" definition as well as anything used on guitars (polyurethane, polyester, etc). They were never all-nitro to begin with. If anything, you could argue that a poly undercoat is the most authentic way to finish these guitars.

mbene085 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:12 pm

the most authentic way to finish these guitars.

Gibson_Legal has entered the chat

mbene085 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:12 pm

Also, nobody should be worried about poly undercoats. Fender covered all those 60's pre-CBS bodies in Fullerplast before painting

They started using fullerplast in '61 or '63, from what I've read. So Fender guitars made before that didn't have it.

Yeah, radius is a dumb as hell thing to get hung up on, at least between 7.25” and 9.5” - I could see if it was super flat like some shredder thing, but it isn’t. I noticed what I felt was a little less space but after talking about it here, we actually figured out that it was the way the nut was cut that was causing that gripe. Either way, though, the big frets should just become standard on everything

sunburster wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:12 pm

mbene085 wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 9:12 pm

Also, nobody should be worried about poly undercoats. Fender covered all those 60's pre-CBS bodies in Fullerplast before painting

They started using fullerplast in '61 or '63, from what I've read. So Fender guitars made before that didn't have it.

Considering the Offset reissues have been '62s and '65s, my statement stands.

Besides, before Fullerplast, Fender still used polymerized sealers that weren't nitrocellulose.

The myth of "pure nitro" being accurate or superior is a modern one.

sunburster wrote: ↑

Mon Jul 19, 2021 8:06 pm

Powdered Toast Man wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 8:10 am

The AO Jaguar basically IS the AV65 Jaguar. It doesn't have a modern neck. It still has the 60's C shape and taper. ALL they changed was the fretboard radius to 9.5" and taller frets. That's it.

Well, the AV65 also has a pure nitro finish, with the AO they have a poly undercoat like the older AVRI62s. There is a difference in feel (and eventual wear/aging). I prefer the AV65 over my AVRI62 which also has the poly undercoat.

Also the AO Jags come with the 62 pickups instead of the 65s, for some weird reason.

Maggieo wrote: ↑

Thu Jul 15, 2021 4:42 pm

It just occurred to me that the AO seems based off of the Dave's Thin Skins.

Just missing that 'thin skin' finish.

They did re-add the poly sealer coat. However the finish on the AO's and the AVRI's is NOT the same. AVRI's were notorious for their thick, sometimes tacky nitro. The AO's are using the reformulated nitro from the AV series. It is much harder and thinner. I've got an 08 Wildwood Thin Skin and the finish on my AO's is thinner and harder than that.

The assumption that the poly sealer basically means they went back to the AVRI finish on the AO's is another of the internet tropes I see.