Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
User avatar
smalahove
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by smalahove » Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 am

Maggieo wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:28 pm
CivoLee wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:33 am
The last time Fender made an honest effort to create a lasting new model, I posted a thread about it that turned into a big argument that got the thread locked by the mods; are we sure we want to risk that again? ;)

But seriously, the market has spoken and it seems like all anyone really wants in the realm of guitar design is what classic rockers played in the late 60s/early 70s; Strats and Teles from Fender, and Les Pauls/SGs from Gibson. We should be thankful that fashion shifted long enough in the 80s for Flying Vees/Explorers to become "acceptable". Same thing in the 90s for Jazzmasters/Jaguars. The fact that PRS has managed to squeeze into the market just shows Paul Reed Smith's skill as a designer/marketer.

And since guitars have gone from everyone's favorite instrument to just another part of an arrangement in the modern popular music sense, I doubt we'll see much in the way of innovation beyond refining the archetype created in the mid 1950s.
There are loads of guitarmakers doing new and innovative designs. Godin, for instance. But how many Godin threads are there over at TGP? Or Cort? Next to none.

But! GenZ is buying guitars by the bucketload. They don't post at TGP; they just play 'em.

Honestly, there's never been a better time to play guitar.
I agree with your comment, I just wanted to point out though, that the yardstick for evaluating innovation in the guitar industry is not impressive compared to other industries.

You have the odd example like Teuffel, with models like the Birdfish, the Niwa and the Tesla. They look spectacular imo, and are great examples of innovation when it comes to reinventing the shape of guitar, but they still sound and play like the archetypal guitar.

Image

You have the even rarer example of the Moog guitar, that actually implement a technical innovation:

"that controls the level of energy within the strings of the guitar to modify the capabilities of the guitar. The guitar can send energy into strings to allow for infinite note sustain or the guitar can pull energy from the strings to create a short, staccato sound. The guitar also possesses harmonic blend control, allowing for new types of guitar harmonics to come out of the instrument"

Image

And there are a few examples of pickups aso, that give unique sounds, like David Torn's custom Ronin Mirari:

Image

User avatar
Maggieo
Expat
Expat
Posts: 13446
Joined: Mon Oct 02, 2006 10:36 am
Location: Nebraska, USA
Contact:

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Maggieo » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:23 am

I think there's a time when innovation runs headlong into the law of diminishing returns.

No one complains that oboes have been the same for decades, if not centuries, you know?
“Now I am quietly waiting for/ the catastrophe of my personality/ to seem beautiful again.”- Frank O'Hara
I am not an attorney and this post is for entertainment purposes only. Please consult a licensed attorney in your state for legal advice.

User avatar
smalahove
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 348
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2011 11:52 am

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by smalahove » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:02 am

For sure.
As much as I like the idea of the Teuffel Niwa f.inst. and other more modern takes on the electric guitar, the early designs of Leo Fender in particular, did hit the nail on the head and time has shown that they haven't been (significantly) improved upon. Imo the Telecaster is the ultimate utilitarian guitar, and its successor the Stratocaster, adds another level of comfort and tonality - as a complement, not a replacement.

Gibson otoh have more designs that do have significant design flaws, and that have reached their iconic place more through time and rockstar fame, than design imho.

I acknowledge the (assumed high) price on these FCS Starcasters, as guitar prices on the mid-to-high end of the scale, have risen considerably the last few years, but given the lack of popularity of most of the oddballs that are designed by the FCS but released as Fender US guitars, I doubt these would have been more popular. As much as the Parallell Universe Maverick II got some traction on this forum, I doubt many paid the 2.5-3K it retailed for. A similar Starcaster model would probably have been in the 3-4K range ...

User avatar
adamrobertt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by adamrobertt » Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:07 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:23 am
I think there's a time when innovation runs headlong into the law of diminishing returns.

No one complains that oboes have been the same for decades, if not centuries, you know?
Yeah, I think this is the real issue. The electric guitar at this point is an established format with features (or lack of features) that define it. If you stray too far from the formula, it becomes something else entirely, which isn't a bad thing per se, but it is a bad thing for people who are trying to sell electric guitars that people want to actually buy.

Like, what do you want Fender to do at this point? They have a decent set of body shapes and pickup configs and hardware options - and yeah, they've been in use since the 50s more or less, but you can say that about pretty much every other mainstream guitar maker too.

You don't hear people bitching about how Martins have been the same for 150 years... I guess I don't understand why Larry in particular has such a raging hate boner for Fender. I feel like if they tried to innovate everyone would hate it anyway - and what's left to innovate aside from wacky random guitar shapes for the sake of it (or something like that)?

User avatar
CivoLee
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:22 pm

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by CivoLee » Sun Jul 25, 2021 5:12 pm

smalahove wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 am
I agree with your comment, I /just wanted to point out though, that the yardstick for evaluating innovation in the guitar industry is not impressive compared to other industries.

You have the odd example like Teuffel, with models like the Birdfish, the Niwa and the Tesla. They look spectacular imo, and are great examples of innovation when it comes to reinventing the shape of guitar, but they still sound and play like the archetypal guitar.

Image

You have the even rarer example of the Moog guitar, that actually implement a technical innovation:

"that controls the level of energy within the strings of the guitar to modify the capabilities of the guitar. The guitar can send energy into strings to allow for infinite note sustain or the guitar can pull energy from the strings to create a short, staccato sound. The guitar also possesses harmonic blend control, allowing for new types of guitar harmonics to come out of the instrument"

Image

I actually thought the Moog Guitar was pretty cool. But I was in no position to afford one and I'm not that into Strat-style guitars anyway. I couldn't imagine that Teuffel on the left playing "like a normal guitar" past the seventh fret, though.

Parker had a good run (mid 90s - mid 2010s), and Line 6 is still holding onto the Variax concept, though nowdays they look like they actually have pickups...

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:12 pm

adamrobertt wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 12:07 pm
Maggieo wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:23 am
I think there's a time when innovation runs headlong into the law of diminishing returns.

No one complains that oboes have been the same for decades, if not centuries, you know?

You don't hear people bitching about how Martins have been the same for 150 years... I guess I don't understand why Larry in particular has such a raging hate boner for Fender. I feel like if they tried to innovate everyone would hate it anyway - and what's left to innovate aside from wacky random guitar shapes for the sake of it (or something like that)?
I'll get two birds with one stone here... the reason I dislike Fender is because they pretend to be innovative, and they really aren't.

Oboes are sold as either student level or professional level oboes, or anything in between.

Martin is the same thing, more or less.

But Fender should either actually be an innovative company that is using its position in the marketplace to push the definition of what an electric guitar is, or they should just keep cranking out the fucking Stratocaster and shit. Either is fine.

But these half-assed attempts are just sad, embarrassing, and appalling. Slapping some shit you have lying around on other shit you have lying around isn't innovative. It's stupid and worse than if you had done nothing at all.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Larry Mal » Sun Jul 25, 2021 8:13 pm

Anyway, I scrapped a long post earlier for the most part in an effort to write something that might be more illustrative of what I see here, and why I don't respect it. It occurred to me as I'm sitting here drinking a Schlafly beer. Most people wouldn't know this, but Schlafly is a relatively large beer maker in St. Louis, and started as a microbrew in the shadows of Anheuser-Busch in 1991. This will become relevant later, I promise- I'm getting somewhere with this.

Back in the early 90's the microbrew revolution had made its way to St. Louis, not an easy thing in the face of restrictive Missouri state laws and the incredible dominance of Anheuser-Busch. I should also mention that St. Louisans like A-B products, I still think they are very good beers, and this community liked being the home of the world's largest brewer that also made good beers and was located here in St. Louis. It was not easy for microbreweries to open here! People enjoyed supporting Anheuser-Busch, and they genuinely were local people... I met various Busch folks. This town supported the big beer conglomerate.

The microbrew revolution came regardless, and Anheuser-Busch had to respond to that. They initially did so by making their own beers that appeared to be microbrews, but on closer inspection were made by Anheuser-Busch. The point was to use Anheuser-Busch's shelf space and distribution power to crowd out other beers, and to confuse the buyer.

This didn't work, though, because people were buying craft beers simply because they weren't Anheuser-Busch beers, so there was nothing Anheuser-Busch could make that would satisfy people. If Anheuser-Busch made a pale ale, well, that wasn't what people wanted... they wanted a pale ale that was not made by Anheuser-Busch.

Other massive breweries faced the same problem, and they arrived at the same solution: to consolidate, and use their power to purchase the microbreweries. You can't tell what's what very easily anymore, and this entire industry is built around confusing the beer buyer:

Walmart announced last year that it had begun selling its own line of craft beers, claiming it was ”working in ‘collaboration’ with Trouble Brewing to brew four styles of craft beer.” Which would be a smart business move, except for the part where “Trouble Brewing” doesn’t actually exist. According to government filings, the beer is made by WX Brands from a location in Costa Rica, where a company named “Genesee Brewing” makes beer identified as “cheap college-party staples.” USA Today, throwing the kind of shade normally reserved for drag competitions, notes one taste-tester for Walmart’s phony craft beer described the flavor as “good for flip cup.”

Walmart was sued over this:

According to the lawsuit, the bullshit “Trouble Brewing” beer doesn’t meet any of the criteria for craft beer, let alone explain why you’re paying more for anything Walmart makes, since that kind of flies in the face of the retail giant’s whole raison d’etre. For example, to qualify, it would need to be more 25 percent owned by a craft brewer and making fewer than 6 million barrels of beer a year, both of which are conditions Walmart reportedly fails with flying colors.

The problem is pretty deep, and there's a ton of beers out there that look like microbrews but aren't anymore, let's consider Goose Island, Breckenridge, Elysian, Four Peaks, Golden Road, Magic Hat, and so on... these are breweries that were independent but are now owned by A-B Inbev. Other massive brewers are doing the same shit.

In response to the question "What do you think about A-B InBev buying up craft breweries?", Dogfish Head founder Sam Calgione said this:

"I get it that a number of the patriarchs of craft brewing are getting to retirement and trying to figure out how to transition out of brewing. So I'd never shit on somebody's decision to sell out.

I do think the world's largest breweries are disingenuous in their intentions moving into the craft beer world. They’ll buy a once-independent brewery — not naming names — and suddenly its IPA's kegs are on the street for half as much as a true indie craft beer. It really shows they're using these once-craft brands as pawns in their game to knock the true indie breweries off the board."


Now, how does this figure in with what Fender does?

Well, firstly, Fender is the A-B Inbev of the guitar world, there's just no other way of looking at it... they are the biggest player in a global market that takes in billions of dollars.

And like Anheuser-Busch, they've had to respond to changing market needs in various ways.

One of the ways is with the Custom Shop. We all are talking about a couple of bullshit Custom Shop guitars that aren't even cool, but you know what? There are hundreds of other guitar makers who make great one-offs also- some on this very thread!- and none of that shit gets talked about in any kind of press or social media at all. Barely even here!

Secondly, we can look at those wretched Alternate Reality pieces of shit and realize that it's Fender taking the easy way towards smothering the competition with lazy new designs that they don't really care about- they don't make them in large numbers or honestly make new models out of them. But once again, it gets a lot of press that other guitar makers don't get, since clicks are limited, print lines are limited also. Attention span is limited.

Let's turn again to Calgione:

"That's something to be wary of as these large breweries are buying up small breweries, then brewing their beers in giant quantities and charging very little for them. Their end goal is to dominate every segment of the beer world. If they succeed in that, then beers will get homogenized back down again to a few simple styles again... I'm sure there's a room full of MBAs and all they care about is the Budweiser brand. That's what they're paid to care about. "

This is the point with the Alternate Reality bullshit. If Fender really thought that these would sell, they would make new models, they would sell them worldwide. That's how their business model operates, after all.

But they don't. They just dump stuff on the market in order to get the money from people that might want something "a little different" and every dollar they get from that is absolutely necessary money that genuine craft guitar makers desperately need and don't get. Fender doesn't need to make money on the bullshit Alternate Reality Jazzstang or whatever the fuck, they just need to make sure no one else gets that money.

Case in point, they hired Ron Thorn. Now, they could have Ron Thorn (a previous competitor on a very small scale) actually making new and exciting guitars for them.

But they won't. They don't need to. They have the Strat, and the rest of it, and that's the past and the future. They don't give a shit about the Custom Shop stuff, they aren't a custom shop. They just need to make sure that genuine custom shops don't get the business while Fender operates their Custom Shop at what is at best insignificant margins for them... they don't need any revenue from the Fender Custom Shop and if they closed it tomorrow it wouldn't make a lick of difference. They only run it to hurt real custom shops.

So hiring Ron Thorn got them press. Ron Thorn making Custom Shop Fenders gets attention. Actual new Ron Thorn models, though? Well, that would require investment, and marketing the new models which would require explaining why these new models are worth considering instead of Fender's other bread and butter offerings like the Stratocaster. That's not appealing to Fender. Remember the roomful of MBAs that are only paid to care about the Budweiser brand? Ron Thorn's own designs can never be the Stratocaster, and the Stratocaster is Fender's bread and butter.

Same with the Alternate Reality and the rest of that bullshit. They don't need to make money off that, and the sales of that is a fraction of a percent of Fender sales. They just need to make sure that at least some folks that want "something different" buy that shit instead of something genuinely different, because with Fender it's the long game... they can absorb some losses, and in the end the competition won't be able to survive but they will. A-B Inbev dumps pale ales (which is the worst beer) in the supermarkets until that trend is over (God let it be tonight) and in the end, they still have their core product. They don't give a shit about the pale ale.

And it's absolutely going to work. How do I know? Because I see these threads here all the time, but I never see anyone buy any of these guitars in any kind of numbers. I see more people buy pre-CBS Mustangs than I do any of this Custom Shop stuff (most of which is just handmade currently produced models anyway) or Alternate Reality nonsense.

The reason I don't like Fender is not because they are a behemoth- I still drink Busch from time to time- but because they pretend to innovate, but don't, although they could. They use their market position to corrupt the guitar market to an extent that I don't see other guitar makers doing.

So what should you do?

Well, if you want a custom guitar, then get a fucking custom guitar. That's not Fender. Fender can never be that. Having Fender make a custom made Stratocaster is just buying an imitation AB-Inbev microbrew.

You want a unique guitar? Then have someone design you one. Pay that person- don't pay the conglomerate. Support real guitar designers, not bloated corporations pretending to be that while really offering nothing.

If you don't want to do either? That's fine, also. I still drink Busch, I have a Strat. Those are both great products!

But don't pretend you are doing anything other than supporting a massive conglomeration that controls what the market is going to be in the long term. Because you aren't.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
smjenkins
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1547
Joined: Fri Oct 08, 2010 5:45 am
Location: The Emerald Fucking City

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by smjenkins » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:46 pm

Can we please get a raging hate boner TL;DR?

Kidding, that was a great and well thought out post. It's interesting to think how JMs, Jags, Mustangs (and VIs and XIIs) fit into this. I suppose that is like saying you prefer ice beer to the standard Busch? "I like their edgier shit".

User avatar
sal paradise
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3596
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 12:41 am

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by sal paradise » Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:51 pm

Does anyone buy a Fender thinking they are supporting an independent business?

There’s a lot of holes, conflation & assumption in your post. No point arguing that though. I get it.

I think perhaps the hatred is slightly unfair. Big companies are shit at innovating & good at marketing. But what about the flip side? Independent builders making strat copies in order to make money is pretty cynical too.

The whole industry is pretty backward looking. Not just fender.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by JSett » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm

sal paradise wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:51 pm

I think perhaps the hatred is slightly unfair. Big companies are shit at innovating & good at marketing. But what about the flip side? Independent builders making strat copies in order to make money is pretty cynical too.
This.

Bar a few exceptions, almost all of the smaller builders I see out there are just making money off the back of Fender designs with just small differences in pickups, headstock, etc. It's just one giant echo chamber. And it's getting very stale. Pretty much the only one I'd be tempted to go with would be Harvester - at least he's doing something visually different... even if they are heavily influenced by other stuff. I'd rather see people making weirdo interpretations of old Teisco or Eastern Europe/Russian ideas than another Jazzmaster ripoff
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
s_mcsleazy
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 18423
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 7:30 am
Location: glasgow

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by s_mcsleazy » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:57 am

BeeTL wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:18 pm
Kids these days...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aIZD9WFpWZo
i love how that "don't mess with me, i have the power of god and anime on my side" is still a valid meme
offset guitars resident bass player.
'Are you trying to seduce me Mrs Robinson? Or do you just want me to solder a couple of resistors into your Muff?'

User avatar
adamrobertt
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2408
Joined: Sun Mar 28, 2010 10:28 am
Contact:

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by adamrobertt » Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:48 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:44 pm
sal paradise wrote:
Sun Jul 25, 2021 9:51 pm

I think perhaps the hatred is slightly unfair. Big companies are shit at innovating & good at marketing. But what about the flip side? Independent builders making strat copies in order to make money is pretty cynical too.
This.

Bar a few exceptions, almost all of the smaller builders I see out there are just making money off the back of Fender designs with just small differences in pickups, headstock, etc. It's just one giant echo chamber. And it's getting very stale. Pretty much the only one I'd be tempted to go with would be Harvester - at least he's doing something visually different... even if they are heavily influenced by other stuff. I'd rather see people making weirdo interpretations of old Teisco or Eastern Europe/Russian ideas than another Jazzmaster ripoff
Right! Also no one thinks that Fender is a custom shop, and people who want truly custom instruments don't buy Fenders.

I'm pretty sure most people realize that Fender is In-Bev (but they can still get beer they like there) and if they want something truly special they need to look elsewhere.

I guess I don't quite understand how Fender is being totally evil and horrible here, they're just doing what any other corporation of their size in the world would do.

User avatar
GreenKnee
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1212
Joined: Thu Oct 21, 2010 7:05 am
Location: Sheffield, UK

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by GreenKnee » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am

adamrobertt wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 3:48 am

Right! Also no one thinks that Fender is a custom shop, and people who want truly custom instruments don't buy Fenders.

I'm pretty sure most people realize that Fender is In-Bev (but they can still get beer they like there) and if they want something truly special they need to look elsewhere.

I guess I don't quite understand how Fender is being totally evil and horrible here, they're just doing what any other corporation of their size in the world would do.

Perhaps if Fender were buying out smaller builders like BilT and using them to bolster their own business it could be seen to be more like Larry's analogy. As I see it, Fender makes a LOT of guitars and most of those are models they know will sell. What would be the point in Fender changing up it's whole production line to create something that just isn't going to sell?
Fender produce what they know will sell, and at least they let smaller builders borrow heavily from their original designs without having to take them to court like some other brands do.
Fenders newer outings such as the Meteora are very cool looking to me, but they seem to get slated as soon as their newest guitar isn't an exact vintage copy of a classic S,T or offset guitar. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as innovation goes. American Ultra - the people who have them rate them very highly, the people who slate the specs despise them.

User avatar
Larry Mal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 19673
Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
Location: Saint Louis, MO

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:16 am

GreenKnee wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am

Perhaps if Fender were buying out smaller builders like BilT and using them to bolster their own business it could be seen to be more like Larry's analogy. As I see it, Fender makes a LOT of guitars and most of those are models they know will sell. What would be the point in Fender changing up it's whole production line to create something that just isn't going to sell?
Well, they did bring in Ron Thorn, but that's a small example compared to what the beer conglomerates do. No two industries are the same, but the strategy of the big conglomerate smothering competition remains the same.

And you are correct, most of the guitars they make are models that they know will sell. But they also make some models that they know aren't going to sell in significant numbers that would make any difference in the bottom line. Ask yourself, why do they make those? Why did they make the Telemaster after years of seeing other guitar makers make them? In the face of the Telecaster, the Telemaster didn't make a whit of difference to Fender's bottom line.

Also remember that Fender has bought companies like Charvel, so they do have a history of buying competition, again though that's not an exact 1:1 analogy since at that point Charvel had ceased to be any kind of real competition.
GreenKnee wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am
Fender produce what they know will sell, and at least they let smaller builders borrow heavily from their original designs without having to take them to court like some other brands do.
Fender has sued other companies, and like Gibson, they have largely lost those. So they don't "let" anyone borrow their designs, they just can't legally enforce those designs other than the headstock. And even then, they probably don't take all the infringements to court because it's a time waster and they really don't need to even bother.

Let's also remember that on top of Fender's very powerful marketing strategies, they have another incredibly powerful weapon: the dealership. Let's say you own a guitar store, and you ask for and are awarded status as a Fender dealer. That will make you money.

Then let's say there's a local guy who makes better Strat designs than Fender makes, and you love those guitars. You carry them also. Then one day Fender finds out, and says we consider those to be infringing on our trademarks, we are considering a suit, but until then if you continue to carry those guitars we will revoke your dealership and you can no longer sell our guitars.

Fender can survive losing you. Can you survive losing Fender? What choice do you make?

I might not have gotten into it, but let's consider the fact that shelf space is limited. When A-B Inbev puts out a pale ale (the most miserable beer ever) from a company that they bought, that's less shelf space that other companies have to get into the supermarket. If you are a local maker of pale ales, simply getting your beer into the supermarkets is harder, since supermarkets already have a full portfolio of all kinds of beer from the conglomerate that they are already dealing with.

Regardless this is another incredibly powerful "soft power" that conglomerates have. To illustrate this with my beer analogy, Anheuser Busch genuinely did lose shelf space to microbrew competitors, and shelf space is everything. They responded by literally giving away refrigerators to grocery stores and bars:

BOSTON—A battle is brewing in Massachusetts between state regulators and Anheuser-Busch InBev NV over allegations the beer giant has provided nearly $1 million in unlawful giveaways to entice retailers and bars to push Budweiser over rivals.

The state’s Alcoholic Beverages Control Commission has issued a report detailing investigators’ findings and set a June hearing in Boston on the matter. The report alleges a subsidiary of AB InBev gave out bar equipment as incentives to hundreds of Massachusetts businesses in violation of a state law meant to keep beer companies from squeezing out competitors.

Sales representatives “offered the refrigeration equipment to the retailers at no cost, provided the equipment was only utilized for Budweiser products,” investigators said in the report.


So when you see Fender making things like the Telemaster, or the Meteora, remember that they don't have to make a lot of money on these, and they don't. If Fender never made these it wouldn't matter to that company in any way. It does, though, matter to other companies. Fender, like most huge, international corporations, is a very tall oak that grabs all the sunlight it can so that nothing grows beneath it.
GreenKnee wrote:
Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:39 am
Fenders newer outings such as the Meteora are very cool looking to me, but they seem to get slated as soon as their newest guitar isn't an exact vintage copy of a classic S,T or offset guitar. They're stuck between a rock and a hard place as far as innovation goes. American Ultra - the people who have them rate them very highly, the people who slate the specs despise them.
I should mention that I don't consider the Meteora to be any kind of new model, really. Sure, it has a new name, but it's just guitar parts that were designed 80 years ago in some cases recycled onto another body. And that's fine, there was no new technology on the Musicmasters or anything either. But in my mind I usually draw a contrast between the time when Fender was really progressive and made new products that had technology that no one had ever seen before, like the offset waist of the Jazz bass, or the unique vibrato unit of the Mustang, and so on.

They don't really do that anymore, because they control the market and guitar players allow Fender and others to dictate what is and what isn't "good" in electric guitars, so Fender stifles innovation, it doesn't really help them after all, since their bread and butter guitars are designs that came about in the 50s and if they had new, successful designs it would just be Fender competing against themselves, right?

Which is why I am talking about that California Special there. That has new technology on it... a bridge that is so good you can't even buy it, and a unique vibrato unit and maybe pickups.

If Fender was the company they want to appear to be, they would be developing stuff like that.

Look if A-B Inbev didn't bother with buying small brewers and undercutting potential competition, they would still be an incredibly successful and profitable company. Budweiser sells, and for some reason Michelob Ultra is something that people will buy. So why do they do this?

Well, it allows them to control what the beer market actually is. They don't just compete there, they set the stage for what the beer market and its consumers have access to and in such a way they can control the future of it.

This is what Fender does also, and the reason I write what I do is to show people that. It's not a perfect analogy between Fender and A-B Inbev, of course. But my point is there is nothing cool about the Fender Custom Shop, they only opened that up to undercut competition they were already finding out there. Most of their "new" models aren't really designed to do anything other than grab sunlight from other competitors, and you can tell because they don't really offer anything that their existing bread and butter instruments don't in the end.

And look, I know I've gone into greater depth about this than a couple of bad Custom Shop Fenders deserved. At the same time, though, I get pretty tired of people saying I "hate" Fender and so on, and I don't. I don't hate them. I just see them for what they are, I have a pretty good understanding of what they are doing in the marketplace, and ultimately I think that they are a very big reason for why the concept of what an electric guitar is has been so stagnant. That is to say, the biggest electric guitar maker in the world doesn't really want guitar technology to progress since that runs contrary to their own products, and is it really a coincidence that guitar technology really doesn't progress? Can anyone believe that?

To wrap it up: there is a big difference between beer makers and guitar makers that no one has pointed out. For whatever reason, the big beer makers like Anheuser-Busch had to change in the face of competition. Whether they liked it or not, there were new products out there that were capturing significant sales away from their core products.

Guitar makers didn't, though. Remember that everyone is marketed to, and everyone is marketed to successfully. That's all there is to it.

The equivalent in the world of beer would be if there were new brands out there that were pale ales, but the overwhelming attitude with beer drinkers was that there was nothing better than Busch, that there could not be anything better than Busch, and that the state of beer making reached its apex with the creation of Busch and there was simply no need for any other kind of beer, and then pale ales disappeared (which they should, awful) and there were only variations of Busch being made anywhere. That's kind of the guitar market.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

User avatar
zenarcade
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1101
Joined: Mon Jan 18, 2010 6:57 am
Location: Munich, Germany

Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by zenarcade » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:40 am

These custom shops and "reissues" by Fender get really boring. And why are they just half assing it instead of doing real replicas of the rare models? Is it so difficult to do proper versions of the Starcaster Electric XII, Coronado, Marauder etc. that aren't a total joke

Post Reply