Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Discussion of newer designs, copies and reissue offset-waist instruments.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by BTL » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:05 am

I see it completely differently. I look at it like the automotive experience with manufacturer's concept cars vs. customized factory options/upgrades, and aftermarket hot-rods. So, one can take a stock model and make it their own, or build something from scratch with a mix of stock and custom parts.

Concept cars and prototypes are for auto shows, non-factory customs are for custom shops, shade tree mechanics, and tinkerers, and showroom floor daily drivers with factory upgrades are for the average consumer. The only difference I see is that Fender has its own in-house custom shop, so if you want to own a factory-built concept car, a manufacturer prototype, or a even a factory hot-rod, you can.

Fender is just responding to the market, and it's in a position to do so in a way that other large manufacturers can't or don't care to.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Larry Mal » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:32 am

BeeTL wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:05 am
I see it completely differently.
Sure. At the same time, though, guitars aren't cars, and I really don't see why I would not be able to buy the California Special as a stock guitar, you know? What is the justification for keeping that in reserve?

And also, that RSD bridge... what is the justification for that being reserved for the Custom Shop only? If it's such a good bridge, then why don't they make it for the other guitars it would be appropriate for? Why don't they care about the other 99% of the guitars they make enough to put the best hardware on those? A two thousand dollar entry point isn't enough for the best technology?

We aren't talking about a car engine... we are talking about a bridge on a guitar.

Not to make this Fender vs. Gibson, but while Gibson offers a Custom shop in which one can configure any guitar that one wants, they don't reserve entire new models and technology for that like we are seeing with Fender. That is to say, you might want to pay Gibson more for either a special guitar or for a more handmade experience, but it's still their actual guitar models that they make with the actual hardware that they put on the rest of the guitars.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by HarlowTheFish » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:04 pm

I do wanna point out that Ron Thorn is on the record about the Custom Shop being very involved in the Alternate Reality/etc lines, and that he in particular did a bunch of models, to the point where they didn't put out all the things he'd designed, intentionally, so that every builder in the custom shop could get a chance to do some stuff for them.

Keep in mind too that the people who are spearheading design at FCS are the right age for their influences to be the same as the better-known partscaster builders, so you'll end up with some pretty similar-looking stuff.

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by BTL » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:29 pm

I'm no expert on running a manufacturing operation, either in theory or in practice, but I have had more than a few conversations with folks who are in the OEM game, so I can speculate based on those conversations. As a baseline, everybody's plans at the beginning of 2019 were blown to smithereens due to Covid. Getting stock parts has been a nightmare, so I imagine anything new that was not already well into production has been shelved. I can vouch for that based on my own experience.

With that in mind, every part on an instrument has its own backstory as far as feasibility and cost effectiveness are concerned. Prototypes and short runs are just that, and for whatever its worth, that's where my building experience lies. I was fortunate enough to develop relationships with OEMs like Fralin, Lollar, and Hipshot during a time when they had incremental excess capacity and could entertain a new project from a small builder, especially if it aligned with their overall business goals.

Fralin wound the first Big Single (for guitar or bass) for me under a P90 cover with no holes, Lollar wound the first few sets of 5-string Thunderbird pickups for me, and Hipshot cut all of my custom bridge plates and pickup rings on their new (at the time) laser machine. Scaling these prototype-level projects up to be cost-competitive on a larger scale requires tooling and infrastructure. In Lindy Fralin's case, he made the Big Single a production part. That means he had an injection-mold tooled for the custom bobbin, metal slugs cut for the sidewinder blade, and custom magnets stocked for this particular model. The production unit is built on a humbucker baseplate, so that’s not unique, but he keeps thousands of each component part in stock. By contrast, the Lollar and Hipshot pieces continue as short-run, bespoke, made on-demand parts when excess capacity permits. Currently, excess capacity is almost zero.

I believe that's how the Fender Master-Builder program operates, but on a much larger scale. It's kind of a "skunk works" operation where they can tinker and experiment, and people are willing to pay the incremental price for that kind of approach. But, in order to bring a new model up to speed on the main production line, Fender needs thousands of orders, years in advance...and a pandemic-free supply chain that is firing on all cylinders.

Understanding that, people in the business tell me I should charge $3,000+ for my builds, and that is the rational market price for what I'm doing if they had a known brand on the headstock. Needles to say, they don't, so I can't...at least not yet.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by sal paradise » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:02 pm

Fender can create the market, though. Like Larry alluded to, they play it safe & pander to traditionalists with almost every model. Sticking a vintage style offset trem on a vintage style strat isn’t groundbreaking.

Yes, many new designs crash & burn. But that’s what innovative companies do: one win funds a few misses. Exactly what big companies are fearful of.

To take the Disney/Pixar approach, perhaps Fender need to fund a small company just focused on new designs. The big monster brings in reliable cash & the little shit keeps them relevant.

On the “new designs” thing, Gibson putting electric tuners on a vintage shaped body isn’t new either. So I’d argue that half-assed innovation is what people hate more than new shapes. But I’m often wrong & the desire to emulate your hero’s axe is strong.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Veitchy » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:11 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:32 am
And also, that RSD bridge... what is the justification for that being reserved for the Custom Shop only? If it's such a good bridge, then why don't they make it for the other guitars it would be appropriate for? Why don't they care about the other 99% of the guitars they make enough to put the best hardware on those? A two thousand dollar entry point isn't enough for the best technology?
This is only anecdotal, but I've hard the RSD Bridges are largely handmade. I don't see why you couldn't CNC a bunch of them at a time, but I'm under the impression they're made to order at this point.

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by stillzZz » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:17 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:32 am
BeeTL wrote:
Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:05 am
I see it completely differently.
And also, that RSD bridge... what is the justification for that being reserved for the Custom Shop only? If it's such a good bridge, then why don't they make it for the other guitars it would be appropriate for? Why don't they care about the other 99% of the guitars they make enough to put the best hardware on those? A two thousand dollar entry point isn't enough for the best technology?

We aren't talking about a car engine... we are talking about a bridge on a guitar.
This is the thing that gets me. Spending $2k on a guitar should get you that bridge.

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by JSett » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:29 am

I'm guessing the reason they haven't offered them out is merely down to keeping something exclusive to the CS guitars. Don't underestimate the power of the sense of 'exclusivity' when it comes to selling things to people with money.

Im certainly not a wealthy person - I bought my CS JM used, with money I had to save - and I ripped that sucker out and stuck a Staytrem in to recoup some of the cost.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by smalahove » Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:58 am

Iirc Anderton’s said they had to order a substantial amount (150-300 something like that) just to get Fender to paint the guitar in a different color (Squier 60s cv tele).

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by CivoLee » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:33 am

The last time Fender made an honest effort to create a lasting new model, I posted a thread about it that turned into a big argument that got the thread locked by the mods; are we sure we want to risk that again? ;)

But seriously, the market has spoken and it seems like all anyone really wants in the realm of guitar design is what classic rockers played in the late 60s/early 70s; Strats and Teles from Fender, and Les Pauls/SGs from Gibson. We should be thankful that fashion shifted long enough in the 80s for Flying Vees/Explorers to become "acceptable". Same thing in the 90s for Jazzmasters/Jaguars. The fact that PRS has managed to squeeze into the market just shows Paul Reed Smith's skill as a designer/marketer.

And since guitars have gone from everyone's favorite instrument to just another part of an arrangement in the modern popular music sense, I doubt we'll see much in the way of innovation beyond refining the archetype created in the mid 1950s.

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by BTL » Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:36 am

The reports of guitar's death have been greatly exaggerated.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by CivoLee » Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm

BeeTL wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:36 am
The reports of guitar's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Guitar certainly isn't "dead", but it's not what it once was.

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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Maggieo » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:24 pm

CivoLee wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:49 pm
BeeTL wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 11:36 am
The reports of guitar's death have been greatly exaggerated.
Guitar certainly isn't "dead", but it's not what it once was.
2020 set the record for guitar sales and 2021 is on track to outdo it. FWIW.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by Maggieo » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:28 pm

CivoLee wrote:
Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:33 am
The last time Fender made an honest effort to create a lasting new model, I posted a thread about it that turned into a big argument that got the thread locked by the mods; are we sure we want to risk that again? ;)

But seriously, the market has spoken and it seems like all anyone really wants in the realm of guitar design is what classic rockers played in the late 60s/early 70s; Strats and Teles from Fender, and Les Pauls/SGs from Gibson. We should be thankful that fashion shifted long enough in the 80s for Flying Vees/Explorers to become "acceptable". Same thing in the 90s for Jazzmasters/Jaguars. The fact that PRS has managed to squeeze into the market just shows Paul Reed Smith's skill as a designer/marketer.

And since guitars have gone from everyone's favorite instrument to just another part of an arrangement in the modern popular music sense, I doubt we'll see much in the way of innovation beyond refining the archetype created in the mid 1950s.
There are loads of guitarmakers doing new and innovative designs. Godin, for instance. But how many Godin threads are there over at TGP? Or Cort? Next to none.

But! GenZ is buying guitars by the bucketload. They don't post at TGP; they just play 'em.

Honestly, there's never been a better time to play guitar.
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Re: Starcasters from the Custom Shop

Post by BTL » Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:18 pm

Owner, Lowe Custom Guitars

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