NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

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mgeek
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NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:47 am

My fetish is very much '60s guitars I've never seen before', the more obscure the better, so I couldn't resist when this popped up on ebay.

I've done a bit of detective work and I'm 99% sure it was made in South Africa in the mid sixties, based on it having the same tuners and a similar looking neck to these Gallo branded Hagstrom hybrids (https://reverb.com/uk/item/4445544-hags ... lo-jubilee ), plus this ancient thread on here, where someone found one for cheap in a South African junk shop and got a lot of replies along the lines of 'ew that's junk leave it there'!! viewtopic.php?t=39339

It's a bigger guitar than I'm used to- being a fan of Fenton Weill, Vox and other thinner, smaller guitars. I guess it's the same size as a Jazzmaster, shape is probably taken from one too. The body is mahogany, and because there's not much routing, it's pretty heavy!

It needs a bit of work- there are a few splits in the wood here and there (including what looks like a reglued section where the whole edge came off!), probably from being left in a shed or a loft, and the fretboard glue has almost totally failed, the wiring needs re-doing, BUT it's clearly a decent quality guitar, perhaps around the level of a Vox or Jansen.

Also- most of the trem is missing! I suspect as there were connections between Gallo and Hagstrom, that it's either a tremar with a bespoke baseplate, or a close enough copy of one that the business end of one will drop in the hole...

I'm most excited by the wiring, each of the two switches on the horns, I'd guess is a 'left, Centre, Right' three way switch, loads of fun to be had with multiple amps/effects chains! The pickups seem to be made for this guitar rather than off the shelf, I'll add pics later

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antisymmetric
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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by antisymmetric » Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:54 am

Stereophonic- it doesn't get better! 8) I'd love to know how the wiring works. What do you think those switches are for- I guess one is pickup selection, might the other be for remotely activating effects, or do I misunderstand? (My Eko 700s have that function- the rocker switch and second smaller jack) So do you think that spare hole is for another jack to control effects, as opposed to a second stereo output? Really cool find!
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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Fri Jul 27, 2018 1:16 am

antisymmetric wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 12:54 am
Stereophonic- it doesn't get better! 8) I'd love to know how the wiring works. What do you think those switches are for- I guess one is pickup selection, might the other be for remotely activating effects, or do I misunderstand? (My Eko 700s have that function- the rocker switch and second smaller jack) So do you think that spare hole is for another jack to control effects, as opposed to a second stereo output? Really cool find!
isn't it brilliant!

I am pretty sure it's set up with a left and right output, and each of the two three way switches allows each pickup to be left/centre/right, and then there's a Volume and Tone for each 'channel' rather than being associated with a pickup. There's no inbuilt specific effects loop or anything THAT advanced, I was just thinking how cool it'd be to play through a couple of different setups and flick between em

I'm gonna crack on with the neck work today then look at the electrics, obviously there's a missing jack socket, and one of the pots is completely detached, but I think I can figure out where everything went

I'd love to see a picture of a new one, mostly so I could find out which way up the pickup selecting knobs were meant to go!

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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by UlricvonCatalyst » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:25 am

Is it not likely to be cribbed from Rickenbacker's 'stereo' system where the two jacks are for one pickup each? Maybe the three way switches are Mustang types with centre being off and the outer positions switching polarity? I know that would make the lower selector somewhat redundant, but stranger things have been known when it comes to '60s knock-offs.

Just a thought...

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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:49 am

UlricvonCatalyst wrote:
Fri Jul 27, 2018 2:25 am
Is it not likely to be cribbed from Rickenbacker's 'stereo' system where the two jacks are for one pickup each? Maybe the three way switches are Mustang types with centre being off and the outer positions switching polarity? I know that would make the lower selector somewhat redundant, but stranger things have been known when it comes to '60s knock-offs.
I guess that's possible, I'll get a chance to see when I fix it up...it's so damned hot about all I can do is stare admiringly at it ;D

A few manufacturers had stereo systems going on at this time though, so I don't necessarily think it would be nicked from Rickenbacker vs some mad shit cooked up by the maker. I've had a Fenton Weill with a left/right switch for each of the three pickups which was cool

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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by vale » Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:14 am

congrats on your find mgeek.

i think we are on a similar wavelength re the brits & euros (styling, body sizes and fascinating innovations) and i got rid of my jag and jgamaster partly because i just found them too bulky and heavy. so can relate. jags and jms seeem a hell of a weight of redundant plank to hang around one's neck for the sake of keeping the strings tight and a pair of pickups in place (burn the witch!). but maybe it's nice to retain one fat-arse around the house for novelty value.

the red and black is a lush combo. and i really like the way it's aged. it looks as if it's been left out in the desert for a few years. that cracked and flaked thing has an authenticty to it that speaks of decades in the wild, not an afternoon in the custom shop.

and (quirky cool) i really like that little pickup selector cutout in the pickguard. it's like a peek-a-boo bra. very enticing!

re the steropickups thing, it is probably something super simple like a pair of caps that filter frequencies above or below a threshold and direct them left or right, the midway frequency threshold setting being adjustable maybe (if not you can add something easily). didn't shergold do something like that with one of their modulators?
https://www.shergold.co.uk/images/circuits/Module-4.gif

or maybe it's like the splitsonic burns/hayman/shergold pickups that split ead & gbe to send half one way and half the other L&R? i was measuring the resistance on a bricksized hayman superflux bass pickup last week and thinking about how they cound be wired (3+3 x 2 in any combo, in out phase etc). which is probably what led to the modulator idea.

how many wires come out of each pickup? and what's the resistance? splitters seem to be higher as a pair than non-splitters, presumably to allow for adding and taking away resistance sum balance.

if it's south african made maybe it's native mahogany or some exotic hardwood? ostepaths delight!
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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:06 am

vale wrote:
Thu Aug 16, 2018 1:14 am
congrats on your find mgeek.

i think we are on a similar wavelength re the brits & euros (styling, body sizes and fascinating innovations) and i got rid of my jag and jgamaster partly because i just found them too bulky and heavy. so can relate. jags and jms seeem a hell of a weight of redundant plank to hang around one's neck for the sake of keeping the strings tight and a pair of pickups in place (burn the witch!). but maybe it's nice to retain one fat-arse around the house for novelty value.
Haha yes you got it! I can cope with owning this on the basis that it's the only one I've ever seen, but it wouldn't do for ALL my guitars to be this size/weight. Got rid of a sixties Baldwin Double Six for exactly that reason...it was ridiculous.

Shamefully I've sort of set this aside for the last couple of weeks- I reglued the fretboard and done a bit of fretwork, but have been doing some new design/scratchbuilds inspired by the British, Italian and German stuff which have taken over. This South African beast did contribute though- I decided to chamber the bodies! ;)

So I haven't had a chance to fix up the wiring yet, but I've had a good look inside and I'm pretty sure it's a left centre right for each pickup kind of set up, with each 'channel' having a volume and tone, rather than those being associated with a particular pickup. Just one hunts capacitor of normal value on each tone. It's a brilliant idea, but not quite as hifi/into the seventies as Hayman, Shergold etc. I need to check out their wiring...sounds interesting! I quite like the look of them, but have so far focused all my attention on the sixties oddities

The body is deffo some type of mahogany- it looks the same as Burns, Fenton Weill and Vox used, but just in a much bigger and thicker quantity!

When I get back on this I'll take some photos of the pickups- they are pretty primitive, just one coil so no cool vox stereo phantom type action, sadly,...in fact they seem quite similar to a Jazzmaster type, only in a slightly bulkier cover.

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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by antisymmetric » Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:55 pm

mgeek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:06 am
... but have been doing some new design/scratchbuilds inspired by the British, Italian and German stuff which have taken over.
:w00t:
Care to elaborate?
(Been doing a bit of weirdo scratch building again myself which I'll post soon)
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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:36 am

antisymmetric wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 12:55 pm
mgeek wrote:
Sat Aug 18, 2018 2:06 am
... but have been doing some new design/scratchbuilds inspired by the British, Italian and German stuff which have taken over.
:w00t:
Care to elaborate?
(Been doing a bit of weirdo scratch building again myself which I'll post soon)
oooh! want to see! I think I'll hold off doing a post of mine til I have one complete, but it seems to be going pretty well so far. Having painstakingly rebuilt quite a few older guitars, it's quite refreshing to be working with nice fresh bits of wood!

As you know I'm very much in the 'it's what it looks like that's important' camp, but recently found myself thinking about making guitars that satisfy my taste visually, but also address some of the inherent design issues that sabotaged so many of the old Fenton Weill, Burns, Vox etc guitars. There's so much more information/inspiration available now re how to make a nice ringy, resonant guitar that plays properly...and those oldies always seem to have say, a dreadful bridge sat on a wobbly bit of plastic, or no break angle, or frets in the wrong place etc etc ;)

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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by antisymmetric » Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:18 am

I seem to be coming from pretty much the same place as you- I've spent far too much time on guitars some people would see as junkers. My Teisco ET460 is one- looked and sounded great but terribly flawed- bad fretwork with some wonky spacing, permanently backbowed neck, non-operational truss rod. I ended up having to remove the fretboard, cut a new truss rod channel, reattach the board, re-radius it, fill and re-cut some fret slots, work on the pots and wiring, etc etc. Plus a load of brass added under the trem (Str@t block style) and a better bridge (reversible mod- the old one could go back). Now it's all back together and apart from the bridge looks like it's had nothing done ::) but now it's the guitar it should be and was totally worth the effort.

My new build is just a half-finished neck and a bunch of cardboard patterns for templates at the moment- no point posting as nothing would make much sense (still might not when completed :ph34r: ). If all goes to plan, at first glance it will remind of a known model, then on closer inspection.... :wtf:
;D
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Re: NGD! 'Club' Newyorker Stereophonic sixties, south african guitar

Post by mgeek » Thu Aug 23, 2018 6:54 am

antisymmetric wrote:
Thu Aug 23, 2018 3:18 am
I seem to be coming from pretty much the same place as you- I've spent far too much time on guitars some people would see as junkers. My Teisco ET460 is one- looked and sounded great but terribly flawed- bad fretwork with some wonky spacing, permanently backbowed neck, non-operational truss rod. I ended up having to remove the fretboard, cut a new truss rod channel, reattach the board, re-radius it, fill and re-cut some fret slots, work on the pots and wiring, etc etc.

Ha! Yes we are definitely coming from the same place with this, that's all very familiar ;)

The thing that's made a difference to me in actually getting something done is deciding to do a 'test build' in order to get comfortable with using the router I bought, and it's so much fun...They are a wonder tool! Makes light work of so many things I struggled to achieve before (last time I took a swing at doing a scratch build I made a maple neck using a hacksaw, a chisel, some files and a sanding block!)

I'm at the stage where I've nearly finished a body (chambered, maple top) just did the binding channel and roundover yesterday, now I'm sketching out the neck...and deciding whether to make it a six or twelve string... :D

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