Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
Jazzmaster_G

Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Jazzmaster_G » Fri Apr 13, 2012 2:38 am

Hi there,

I'm on the hunt for a vintage JM, and I need something clarified: should an un-refretted block and bound fingerboard on a 1965 to 1968 era instrument have those little raised "nibs" which enclose the fret ends, or should the fret ends sit over the binding? I'm trying to understand what clues to look for which suggest a refret. Not that I'm against refrets, but I'd be more confident in having a refret done knowing that the current frets were original (slot width, etc).

I read that article which was discussed on here about re-fretting the '63 neck for the "skyemaster", that has given me the fear. Are there any reliable visual clues to when rosewood is likely to be flakey or chip away when frets are pulled?

While I'm on it, what should be the correct fret crown width for a JM of this period? The Dunlop 6230 is said to be very similar to Fender vintage wire, this measures .078" (by .043" tall).

Thanks.

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nrs24985
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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by nrs24985 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:38 am

They should have little knib ends yes, if the frets hang over the binding then it is a sure sign of a refret, have a look at this article: http://www.tymguitars.com.au/?p=6488" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

It was done by a tech local to me and the guitar used to be mine, have a look at the detailed photos and while it is hard to see the knibs in some photos you can see that the fret wire does not hang over the binding. Having a look at the photos will also probably give you an idea of the refret process and might show you what to look for when trying to work out of the guitar you are purchasing was refretted.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Tree's » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:09 am

No there shouldn't be raised binding nibs on an unfretted or fretted Fender neck, thats how gibsons are done. On Fenders the fret ends stop at the binding.
The binding doesn't cap or enclose the fret ends.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by philmanatee » Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:49 am

Tree's is correct, I just looked at my 78 JM and there are no binding nibs. Phil

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nrs24985
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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by nrs24985 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:11 pm

My 68 had very tiny knibs, no where near as noticeable as the ones on Gibson, but there were slightly raised knibs at the bindings edge! If you have a look at close up photos of late 60s Jags or Jazzmasters necks you will see them.

Jazzmaster_G

Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Jazzmaster_G » Fri Apr 13, 2012 10:46 pm

Hi, thanks for the answers so far.
nrs24985 wrote:They should have little knib ends yes, if the frets hang over the binding then it is a sure sign of a refret, have a look at this article: http://www.tymguitars.com.au/?p=6488" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
I had a look at this article (in fact I go into Tym's in the Valley every time I'm in Brisbane), and he actually states that the fret ends sit over the binding, which seems to contradict what you said. I looked at the photos but they weren't close enough for me to tell; and from the way he described the refret job, he would have removed the nibs in the process.

Philmanatee - you looked at your '78, thanks for that. Can I press you for a little more info: how can you be sure that your instrument has never been refretted? Have you owned it since new, or near enough to new that it's highly unlikely? Another possibility is that by 1978, production processes had changed and there were no longer 'nibs'.

One reason I even ask is that there is a CAR 1966 up on ebay at the moment, which is claimed to be 100% original (has anyone dealt with this guy??? He's probably a member here...), and from what I can tell, there are small binding nibs. Look especially at that photo which shows the treble side of the neck near the nut, even the sides of the nut appear to have binding nibs. Which means one of two things- 1. It is original and has nibs; 2. It has been refretted and had new binding installed, which was shaped for nibs. Scenario 1 is far more likely. This isn't incompatible with the information about the 1978 instrument, it may just mean that at that time, they did 'nibs'. Which then begs another question: WHEN did they do them?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/280861000627 ... 1438.l2649" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'd really appreciate some more comments.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by nrs24985 » Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:50 am

The pictures demonstrate exactly what I am trying to say, I can't vouch for 78 as I've never examined one closely but my 68, before being refretted, had the little raised plastic pieces, nibs if you will, on each side of the bit and frets. They are by no means as noticeable as on Gibsons but they are there. I've never dealt with that seller but the guitar certainly looks original. Look at it this way, it would be hard to regret and add plastic to the binding, do I hardly doubt it has been refretted. All I can say is it looks exactly like my 68 did, awesome guitar by the way!

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by sookwinder » Sat Apr 14, 2012 1:03 am

This seller is "tunomatic" aka "finditonlyhere" aka "vintage sales"

he is known around here as: tuna

he has had some very high end pieces over the years and most times his prices are way way over the top.... but the he also has make an offer and many here have made low ball offers on parts and got reasonable deals.

Is he trustworthy ? mmmm hard question .... I have actually bought a 96 strat from him years ago (quite cheap) before he really got into the top end of the vintage market...

We know for a fact 6 or 7 years back he purchased some 60s fender bass VI strings still in their packaging and then amazingly these same old strings made their way into the case candy of a 60s bass VI and he stated that the bass vi had been "under the bed" for decades and that when the case was opened amazingly strings were found in the case as well ..... those of us following bass VI ebay sales knew this was BS....

so with any used car salesman ... "Caveat emptor" - "Let the buyer beware."
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...

Jazzmaster_G

Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Jazzmaster_G » Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:39 am

nrs24985 wrote:...my 68, before being refretted, had the little raised plastic pieces, nibs if you will, on each side of the bit and frets. They are by no means as noticeable as on Gibsons but they are there.
@nrs... I must have misunderstood what you said; that's good to know that your '68 Jag had those tiny nibs. No big deal that they are gone, but it's a good clue to a re-fret. I agree, they are much smaller than on the Gibsons and other jazzboxes i've seen. Makes you wonder why they bothered....

Sookwinder... thanks for info. I didn't actually know that finditonlyhere is also tunomatic on ebay. Bit of a chop shop I think, with some admittedly high end pieces too. He had a gorgeous LPB spaghetti logo JM for sale a couple of months ago for around $7k; given it's condition I think it was probably a good deal. I know a lot of the older crew on OSG remember $300 JM's, but unfortunately those days are long gone. The first JM I ever saw was in Adelaide in 1987, it was fiesta red pre-cbs (Guy McDonough!!), and around $1200. I wanted one from that moment on. Overpriced for then I suppose, but the pre-CBS craze was on even then.

Keep that info coming about the binding nibs, people. How long did this practice last?

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by sookwinder » Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:29 am

below are some shots from a virtually mint 66 Jaguar and the bottom four are from 67 Bass VI.
I checked my 73 and 75 Jazz Basses and they had similar little binding nibs.
The 60s jaguars that i have restored that have been refretted didn't appear to have any visible nibs

As someone in Oz, the prices you may consider OK for a vintage guitar are sometimes questioned by our OSG brothers who live in the states.... but I like you see vintage prices a little differently ...when a vibrochamp sells for $1300 here you know things are different than in the USA. .... and we all know why ... far fewer vintage pieces here in Oz, extraordinary high cost of "normal" new guitars and amps (thanks Fender Australia) and traditionally an extremely bad exchange rate between the $US and the $AU.

If you do have the $$$ to spend, right now does appear to be a favourable time for someone in Oz to purchase vintage from the USA. US economy hardly moving, and exchange rate that is basically double (yes double) from 10 or 12 years back .... these are some of the factors that allowed me to recently buy the 65 Epiphone Casino.

Image
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...

Jazzmaster_G

Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Jazzmaster_G » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:07 am

@sookwinder.
Thanks. The jury has returned a verdict. We can safely say that from the factory, up to 1975, there should be very small binding nibs. If they were doing it for Jazz basses up to 75, I'm happy to assume they were doing it for JM's. Which calls into question the 1978 which was quoted earlier. Still, I'm sure CBS continued to look for ways to pump out more guitars, cheaper, into the late 70's. I've seen neck pockets you could fit a credit card into.

Agree with your comments on current value. Now might be my moment to improve on 1979.....

On a side note, I've got tickets for Cold Chisel at Festering Hole next Thurs. Couldn't resist.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by sookwinder » Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:29 am

Jazzmaster_G wrote:On a side note, I've got tickets for Cold Chisel at Festering Hole next Thurs. Couldn't resist.
I saw chisel at the last Melb concert in Dec last year.... I am 50 I have seen thousands of gigs and concerts, seen my guitar hero (Mick Taylor) at the Ferntree Gully 20 years ago .. over the last 35 years I have seen every denomination of rock, roll, blues, local and overseas artists, soul, R&B, country, (and) western, jazz, punk, alternative and the down right god awful ... but the chisel gig last dec was THE BEST concert I have ever seen... took my 14 year old nephew to it ... now he really knows what a guitar amp/sound system sounds like :w00t:
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...

Jazzmaster_G

Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by Jazzmaster_G » Sat Apr 14, 2012 7:27 pm

sookwinder wrote:... but the chisel gig last dec was THE BEST concert I have ever seen... took my 14 year old nephew to it ... now he really knows what a guitar amp/sound system sounds like
What a great treat for your nephew. The hiwatt amps Ian is using now sound great, don't they? Are they 1970's reissues, or a modern spec? I know nothing about Hiwatt. I saw the concert at Albury in November, probably the same set list, it was superb. Got standing room right up near the front. My only gripe is that the set list was a bit 'safe', there was nothing obscure in there.... wouldn't you love to hear 'Tomorrow" or 'Yesterdays" or "Metho Blues"? The Flaming Lips in 2009 was one of the best concerts I've seen. Wayne and Steve are of course both Offest Guys. There's a band from Sydney called Dappled Cities who are about to release their 4th album, they are playing at Northcote Social Club on 4/5/12 - great band, get there if you can. They use JM's sometimes.

Earlier, we touched on guitar dealers. Pete's Rare Guitars was busted in Guitar Australia magazine by Ian Moss - Pete's claimed to have Ian's 63 Fiesta Red Strat (at $35k, for a REFIN!). Ian said it was impossible, because the headstock had broken off and he still had it! 6 weeks after that mag came out, and it is STILL for sale on his website. Not good.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:33 pm

Jazzmaster_G wrote:Pete's Rare Guitars was busted in Guitar Australia magazine by Ian Moss - Pete's claimed to have Ian's 63 Fiesta Red Strat (at $35k, for a REFIN!). Ian said it was impossible, because the headstock had broken off and he still had it! 6 weeks after that mag came out, and it is STILL for sale on his website. Not good.
:mellow: <- This is me looking totally unsurprised by that story.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

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Re: Do Block & Bound boards have "binding nibs"?

Post by philmanatee » Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:18 pm

I just looked at my 78 real closely in the sun and it does indeed have some nibs. They are overall smaller than the ones pictured and not on all the frets, I really had to look to see them! Sorry for the misinformation earlier. I remember them being on my 73 and 67 JM's but I've had both of them refretted. Phil

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