School me: Block & Binding necks on Vintage Fenders. When, Why, & How Long?

[SignoftheDragon]

Specifically I'm seeking information on my bucket-list geet: a Custom color, matching headstock B&B Electric XII, but I imagine that the option appeared for JMs and Jags around the same time.

Tell me what you know, o wise and powerful OSG!

Impart your wisdom!



...please?


When was B&B introduced as an option? How many B&B vs standard necks/models were made? Why do I want a B&B XII so bad? What important B&B nugget of knowledge am I forgetting to ask about?

[Embenny]

When was B&B introduced as an option? How many B&B vs standard necks/models were made? Why do I want a B&B XII so bad? What important B&B nugget of knowledge am I forgetting to ask about?

It was never an option AFAIK. It was just a spec change. Binding started immediately in '65 as a CBS spec change to most Offsets, but they either had a bunch of dot inlaid fretboards to use up, or a bunch of dots themselves they didn't want to waste, so you have around a year of D&Bs before you get B&Bs.

Someone probably knows the specific date ranges. But like everything Fender, there's overlap and outliers. The latest D&B necks are dated after the earliest B&B, etc.

I have a D&B '66 neck, but B&B was the standard by the time it was made.

[BoringPostcards]

What I’d like to know is why people say Jags and Jazzmasters didn’t sell well, yet Fender updated them with more labour intensive necks and kept them that way up until they did actually discontinue them.
Did they update the necks to try and sell more? Or were they actually selling OK in the mid 60s? Why didn’t Strats and Teles get binding or blocks?
Coronados, XIIs, Jazz Bass (not P bass) and Bass VI also got binding and blocks.

Embenny got it right on the spec change. You couldn’t order standard necks for these models anymore, by the time they had changed to D&B/B&B.

[ldp54002]

Did they update the necks to try and sell more?

I'm pretty sure this is the answer, or at least related to it. The Jaguar and Jazzmaster stayed at the top of the price list long into the '70s; Fender was determined to keep up the appearance of the Jag/JM as being the "luxury" entries in their six string selection.

I pulled out my 1970 price guide and the cheapest Jaguar (sunburst/rosewood right-handed model) is still a full $12 more expensive than the most expensive Strat (custom color/maple left-hander)--$451 for the Jag, $439 for the Strat. A fully-optioned Jag could push $540 while you could get a hardtail Strat for $320.

I'm sure the bean-counters at CBS realized that the Strat and Tele needed no help selling, so why change anything? The Jag is already top of the heap, what's a few more bucks to make it even better looking with neck binding and flashier inlays? Maybe it'll move a few more units and the profit margin is high enough to offset the extra manufacturing cost.

As an aside, can we talk about how relatively good we have it today? According to my 1970 catalog and price guide, a plain ol' sunburst Jazzmaster would run you $419, and all that comes with is a strap and cord. A case will run you an extra $65. That's almost $4,000 in 2023 dollars! Compared to that, the AVII Jazzmaster is a steal, and you get some custom color choices as well!

[ldp54002]

Why do I want a B&B XII so bad?

Because they make an already awesome-looking guitar even more awesomer.

I bought an ARXII with the express purpose of replacing the neck with a Warmoth B&B neck because I knew I had to have one, even if it wasn't vintage.

[Highnumbers]

The rarest variation is the dots & binding Electric XII.

I didn’t think they existed until eventually seeing a photo of one, then a second photo later. And that’s it. Must have been a very small window of production before going full B&B

[superficial]

Why didn’t Strats and Teles get binding or blocks?

My theory: Even by the mid-60's, Strats and Teles were iconic guitars with a rich pedigree, right? Whereas the JM/Jag were intended to be the modern pinnacle to guitar design. Why change a classic and risk upsetting those buyers?

Nowadays we have AVII vs Ultra in whatever body shape you want, but the principle is the same; reissue-style guitars for those fond of emulating the sounds of their heroes, and modern guitars for people who prefer modern appointments.

Was there also an idea that Strats and Teles were kind of a 'working man*'s guitar'? Gibson / others were making the fancier style guitars while Fender were in the KISS category? Make Teles/Strats too fancy and they lose their appeal a bit?

*(wo)man's?

[sal paradise]

Surely an attempt to steal from Gibson from players who assumed all guitars sounded the same?

[MrFingers]

It was a method to distinguish the "deluxe models (Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Jazz Bass, Bass V, Bass VI, Electric XII and Coronado) from the Standard models (Telecaster, Stratocaster, Precision Bass) and Student models (Mustang, Mustang Bass, Musicmaster,...). It wasn't an option, it was just like that for model X or Y. It coincides with the matching headstocks, which were also only offered on the deluxe models.

Binding: summer of 1965
Blocks: summer of 1966

Hence a dot neck XII is way more rare than a block neck XII, because dot necks were only made for 1.5 year. The XII was never a big seller to begin with, so they sat on a rather big stock of finished necks, meaning the dot necks spilled over into 1966 and even 1967, before going to the blocks & bindings. Dots & bindings are EXTREMELY rare (due to the overstock of the non-bound dot necks).

Ofcourse, you could always custom-order stuff directly at the factory. That's why it's not impossible to see a matching headstock on a standard model (the bassplayer of the Tijuana Brass for instance has an all-black P-bass)

For 1966, it was planned to give the Stratocaster also a B&B neck in the spring of 1966, but ultimately it was decided not to do it. Some did slip through the mazes of the net though.

[gishuk]

Cursed block and binding strat

[bluemonday]

It was a method to distinguish the "deluxe models (Jaguar, Jazzmaster, Jazz Bass, Bass V, Bass VI, Electric XII and Coronado) from the Standard models (Telecaster, Stratocaster, Precision Bass) and Student models (Mustang, Mustang Bass, Musicmaster,...). It wasn't an option, it was just like that for model X or Y. It coincides with the matching headstocks, which were also only offered on the deluxe models.

Binding: summer of 1965
Blocks: summer of 1966

Hence a dot neck XII is way more rare than a block neck XII, because dot necks were only made for 1.5 year. The XII was never a big seller to begin with, so they sat on a rather big stock of finished necks, meaning the dot necks spilled over into 1966 and even 1967, before going to the blocks & bindings. Dots & bindings are EXTREMELY rare (due to the overstock of the non-bound dot necks).

Ofcourse, you could always custom-order stuff directly at the factory. That's why it's not impossible to see a matching headstock on a standard model (the bassplayer of the Tijuana Brass for instance has an all-black P-bass)

For 1966, it was planned to give the Stratocaster also a B&B neck in the spring of 1966, but ultimately it was decided not to do it. Some did slip through the mazes of the net though.

Good synopsis (and video clip). I don't think I've ever seen a factory Precision bass with matching headsock.

OP: rule of thumb think mid '65 to '66 transition from dots to dots w/binding to binding and blocks on "offset" models (though not "budget line i.e. Mustangs/Broncos

[Highnumbers]

Hence a dot neck XII is way more rare than a block neck XII, because dot necks were only made for 1.5 year.

This is not actually true though.

Block neck (and D&B) Electric XII models are fairly rare. Despite the XII only being offered for 1.5 years before the block neck era started, that period also coincided with the folk rock boom. By the time block necks came around, demand was already waning for electric 12-string guitars. The vast majority of Electric XII models have an unbound dot fretboard.

Curiously you see a lot more Coronado XII models (with block necks) from 1966 onward, while still in smaller numbers than the Electric XII.

[Nudger]

Specifically I'm seeking information on my bucket-list geet: a Custom color, matching headstock B&B Electric XII

Cant wait to see this one come together

[SignoftheDragon]

Specifically I'm seeking information on my bucket-list geet: a Custom color, matching headstock B&B Electric XII

Cant wait to see this one come together

The bucket list guitar is out there waiting for me to acquire it: Vintage FEXII, B&B, Custom Color with matching headstock.

I've got some leads on a qualifying candidate- I'll just need to sell a few more of my rarities to make it MINE!

PSA: If you would like to help SignoftheDragon on his quest for XII, please consider donating by purchasing a 12-string from the S.O.T.D.O.S.G.B.P. Emporium - easily found in the For Sale section of this forum.