Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Guitarman555
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Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Guitarman555 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 3:54 am

I have interesting question to talk about. Why do you think Jazzy from 59, 61, 63 sounds slightly different and sounds characteristics shifted slightly.... I was doing a bit research on internet and I found out following:
1. Body used to start as 1 or 2 pieces and in 65 started to be more pieces
2. Material and technique of wiring of pickups changed several times during early sixties
3. slab board to venner shift in 1962

Any more details to those points or any more evolutions that changed the sound? I would be curious to see pictures of differences of pickups coils through those years..
Last edited by Guitarman555 on Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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sal paradise
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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by sal paradise » Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:05 am

2. Pickups

Anything else. Well.
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by JSett » Wed Dec 14, 2022 4:17 am

People can argue about slab/veneer affecting sound as much as they want but I bet there is almost zero measurable difference. As to the body pieces, I also think it has very little effect apart from the potential for added weight affecting resonance.

Pickups. That's where almost all of the sound comes from. That's where most of the sonic differences will come from. Everything else is likely just confirmation bias.
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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Guitarman555 » Wed Dec 14, 2022 5:28 am

Yes, I agree, pickups are very important. Does anybody has details about developement of jag and jazzy pickups through precbs year, picutures, materials, facts?

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Highnumbers » Wed Dec 14, 2022 7:27 am

Agree with the crowd here, the pickups are the only change that substantially affects the sound.

The rest is all really minute details, mostly pertaining to personal preference. Neck profiles changed constantly between years (or between guitars!), the factory used progressively more pieces of lumber. The switch to veneer boards from slab has no effect on tone (IMO).

The wiring was essentially the same, what changes have you noted?

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Mondaysoutar » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:12 am

https://offset.guitars/the-history/

Not sure this is exactly what’s been asked, but I found this ages ago and always have the tab up on my mobile.

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Sauerkraut » Wed Dec 14, 2022 9:32 am

Definitely agree with everyone here that the wood makes no difference. Even maple vs rosewood fretboards makes no discernible difference on an electric guitar to my ears. I found this test quite convincing; it sounds the same with no wood at all.

My ‘66 Jag’s body is made up of 7(!) pieces of wood and it’s absolutely fine with me.

So, yeah: pickups, pickups, pickups.

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Guitarman555 » Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:07 am

Guys, I agree that pickup´s make most of the sound, but wood influence IMHO very strong too. Just imagine, if it was so simple, we could get Fender vintage sound just by installing vintage specification pickups on a horrible Chinese guitar. Are you really sure that it would sound exactly as a jazzmaster from 1959? i don´t think so.

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by JSett » Thu Dec 15, 2022 11:30 am

Guitarman555 wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:07 am
Guys, I agree that pickup´s make most of the sound, but wood influence IMHO very strong too. Just imagine, if it was so simple, we could get Fender vintage sound just by installing vintage specification pickups on a horrible Chinese guitar. Are you really sure that it would sound exactly as a jazzmaster from 1959? i don´t think so.
I think it would sound a lot closer than you think, especially in a blind test. As someone who has owned many many Jazzmasters from all eras and countries I can hand on heart say that most of the differences can can almost removed just by using the same pickups.

Nothing beats the feel of a broken-in vintage neck, that's the main thing I think. The sound can be reproduced very very easily. Don't believe the hype.
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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Highnumbers » Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:40 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:07 am
Guys, I agree that pickup´s make most of the sound, but wood influence IMHO very strong too. Just imagine, if it was so simple, we could get Fender vintage sound just by installing vintage specification pickups on a horrible Chinese guitar. Are you really sure that it would sound exactly as a jazzmaster from 1959? i don´t think so.
There is some merit to this, but it has to be drastically different wood.

Case in point - I have two totally original slab board ‘62 Jazzmasters, one in Olympic white over alder and the other blonde over Ash.

They sound a little different and the only variable is the body wood.

Image

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by JSett » Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:01 pm

Highnumbers wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 4:40 pm
Guitarman555 wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:07 am
Guys, I agree that pickup´s make most of the sound, but wood influence IMHO very strong too. Just imagine, if it was so simple, we could get Fender vintage sound just by installing vintage specification pickups on a horrible Chinese guitar. Are you really sure that it would sound exactly as a jazzmaster from 1959? i don´t think so.
There is some merit to this, but it has to be drastically different wood.

Case in point - I have two totally original slab board ‘62 Jazzmasters, one in Olympic white over alder and the other blonde over Ash.

They sound a little different and the only variable is the body wood.

Image
Ash guitars definitely have a distinctive sound to them - especially compared to, say, mahogany bodied guitars. It would be an interesting experiment to compare the two but swapping everything over bar the bodies (or just swap the bodies between the two) and see how different taking out the variables of neck, pickups, etc also making a difference.
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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by Highnumbers » Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:53 pm

Yep would be interesting but I’m not about to start taking intact guitars apart in the name of science! It’s a good enough comparison between the two already. It’s not a drastic difference in sound but noticeable. These two were made less than a month apart.

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by JSett » Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:00 am

Highnumbers wrote:
Thu Dec 15, 2022 10:53 pm
Yep would be interesting but I’m not about to start taking intact guitars apart in the name of science! It’s a good enough comparison between the two already. It’s not a drastic difference in sound but noticeable. These two were made less than a month apart.
Oh, for sure, it was a hypothetical situation more than anything.

There's so many variables in electric guitars that people cling onto in the name of snake-oil belief and wood is one of those things that, because of its relatively infinite possibilities and variations, has been clung onto and subsequently monetised to the hilt.

For that being period this year where I had my LPB 64, Sunburst 65 and Black 65 Jaguar - all just 6 months apart from the factory - they all sounded slightly different but mostly they kinda sounded all the same. Which was kinda the same as my AV65 reissue, and my 1996 MIJ Shoreline once it had AV65 pickups in.

So, yeah, it's pickups.
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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by sal paradise » Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:12 am

The question here was “why does the sound change on different year models?” So actually comparing two ‘62s isn’t helpful from a scientific perspective anyway for this hypothesis :ph34r:
I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Jazzmaster and Jag pre cbs evolution till mid 60 ś

Post by JSett » Fri Dec 16, 2022 1:38 am

sal paradise wrote:
Fri Dec 16, 2022 12:12 am
The question here was “why does the sound change on different year models?” So actually comparing two ‘62s isn’t helpful from a scientific perspective anyway for this hypothesis :ph34r:
Hey! Stop trying to derail our derailment. Going off at a tangent is what we do around here :D :D
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