Vintage market

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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kapepper
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Vintage market

Post by kapepper » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:48 am

Just wondering about the vintage market. I see jaguars passing by in reverb and my Facebook for 5000-6000 euro easily. Even fenders xii are priced already around 5k (only two years ago approx 2500 euro). Jazzmaster prices are 6.5k
That means almost that process have almost doubled or increased with approx 70% in the last 5 years
My question is- are guitars actually selling at that price? Any other insights or things I am missing?
(Ps very happy I build up my vintage collection prior to 2020 :))

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Unicorn Warrior
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Re: Vintage market

Post by Unicorn Warrior » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:54 am

I don’t think in most cases they’re selling for that price. But still have raised from where they were.

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PJazzmaster
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Re: Vintage market

Post by PJazzmaster » Sat Jun 18, 2022 2:20 pm

kapepper wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:48 am
My question is- are guitars actually selling at that price?
As far as I know, yes :wacko:

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Rob
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Re: Vintage market

Post by Rob » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:00 pm

kapepper wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:48 am
I see jaguars passing by in reverb and my Facebook for 5000-6000 euro easily. Even fenders xii are priced already around 5k (only two years ago approx 2500 euro). Jazzmaster prices are 6.5k
And those are beat-up sunburst/refin prices these days! The older you go, the steeper the price spike seems to be. 70s stuff is about double what it was 5 years ago. Late-60s stuff is about x2.5, and pre-CBS is probably triple what it was 5 years ago.

Of all the vintage Jazzmasters listed on Reverb right now, every single one under $15K is a sunburst or a refin.

At this point, I think you can pretty much name your price for any vintage, original, custom-color Fender. Anything less than 15K is snatched up within hours. A couple weeks ago, we saw a 1965 Jaguar IBM w/ matching headstock listed for about $12K, and it was gone in a matter of minutes (viewtopic.php?f=41&t=122774).

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Re: Vintage market

Post by Highnumbers » Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:35 pm

kapepper wrote:
Sat Jun 18, 2022 8:48 am
That means almost that process have almost doubled or increased with approx 70% in the last 5 years
My question is- are guitars actually selling at that price? Any other insights or things I am missing?
Yes.

Offset Fenders were historically undervalued, compared to other Fender guitars from the same period that aren’t as rare. The market is beginning to correct this, as newer (often younger) buyers enter the vintage market and are specifically seeking JMs/Jags.

While prices for Strats and Teles are still notably higher than offsets of the same era, the rise in offset prices over the last three years has been dramatically higher than these models. In some cases prices have tripled, compared to 2019.

Personally I think this is only the beginning. If anybody is lamenting that prices aren’t what they were a few years ago, they missed when they were seriously undervalued. But maybe they still are, to some extent. Let’s see what things look like in 10 years.

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Marc
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Re: Vintage market

Post by Marc » Sat Jun 18, 2022 11:09 pm

I bought my 65 JM a few months ago in the UK after a year of looking and took the plunge because it was a a ‘now or never’ situation. Each time a decent one came onto the market it was around £1k more. So they basically went up by £3k over year or so that I started looking. I do think they’ve peaked at least for now. I would say that since I got mine the asking price for a refin is what I paid for an original sunburst. Refins don’t seem to be selling though.

When the financial crisis started at the end of 2008 I thought that prices would soften but it didn’t really happen - dealers seemed to double down and prices continued to rise. I think they were probably able to take advantage of newly skint people needing to sell quickly for cash and those that escaped financial difficulties continued to buy at even higher prices.

CITES. Is also creating domestic markets as it’s such a PITA to go through with it.

I would say overall the prices on Strats haven’t risen so much recently as they are already high and JMs and Jags are catching up with them.

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Re: Vintage market

Post by Pacafeliz » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:00 am

Tod I know about the insanity but not until now I really realize the sheer dimension of this.

Thinking about selling my 1975/76 Jag and finding it hard/impossible to price it

I mean even Marrguars sell now for +2500???!

WHOA
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: Vintage market

Post by johnnysomersett » Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:16 am

I'm intrigued as to what catapulted the sudden interest in vintage offsets beyond the Grunge-era kids getting old enough to afford them? There's a LOT of older collectors / players that wouldn't look twice at them before (and openly disparaged them) that all of a sudden are going ga-ga to own one. Could it be because pre-CBS Strats and Teles (what they likely truly want) just got so insanely expensive that they finally looked in the direction of our world?
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Re: Vintage market

Post by T70 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 12:27 pm

You can still find a good pre CBS jaguar for a reasonable price (like a new custom shop price). Not sure how long that will last. I regret selling a few JMs in 2019 but hindsight is 20/20!

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Re: Vintage market

Post by Russell1982 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:50 pm

As someone who only recently thought about looking at vintage jaguars, what do you guys consider is a “decent” price and what do you think is overpriced? I was surprised, when looking, to find a couple of late 60’s jags for about £4,700 to £5,000, as I’d assumed they’d be a lot more. But then I’ve seen a lot for closer to £10,000

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Re: Vintage market

Post by camilonava27 » Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:31 pm

Russell1982 wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:50 pm
As someone who only recently thought about looking at vintage jaguars, what do you guys consider is a “decent” price and what do you think is overpriced? I was surprised, when looking, to find a couple of late 60’s jags for about £4,700 to £5,000, as I’d assumed they’d be a lot more. But then I’ve seen a lot for closer to £10,000
I bought my Mid 65 Sunburst Jaguar last December for $3.9k USD. It’s crazy to me how much they’ve gone up. I would say anything from $4-5k USD is pretty fair

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Re: Vintage market

Post by graceless » Sun Jun 19, 2022 4:01 pm

camilonava27 wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 3:31 pm
Russell1982 wrote:
Sun Jun 19, 2022 2:50 pm
As someone who only recently thought about looking at vintage jaguars, what do you guys consider is a “decent” price and what do you think is overpriced? I was surprised, when looking, to find a couple of late 60’s jags for about £4,700 to £5,000, as I’d assumed they’d be a lot more. But then I’ve seen a lot for closer to £10,000
I bought my Mid 65 Sunburst Jaguar last December for $3.9k USD. It’s crazy to me how much they’ve gone up. I would say anything from $4-5k USD is pretty fair
I paid $4k for an early '65 Jag April 21, I would say our price points are probably the last sub-$5k 62-65 jags.

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Re: Vintage market

Post by s_mcsleazy » Sun Jun 19, 2022 6:14 pm

has anyone blamed mike and mike's guitar bar yet? i'm joking (kinda)

i have a feeling it's a lot of issues.

many gen x'rs are now in a position where they've got some disposable income and feel like treating themselves to the things they always wanted as a teenager.
many people now see the vintage guitar market as more of an investment.
people have better access to more resources to find out how much things are.
better resources on how to set up these instruments that were once considered "quirky but unreliable" adding value to them.
social media meaning you can more easily put yourself in contact with the right buyer.
a rising tide lifting all seas...... so to speak.

but i'm also going to say inflation is the big one. if you ask me or any of my musician friends what our dream guitars are, we'll all say something vintage. for me it's a 70's blackguard jazzmaster, my bandmate devan is a purpleburst compstang, my friend luke is a 60's dakota red mustang or a mosrite, one of my friends wants a vintage travis bean. the downside is most of us spend a good 40% of our wages on rent and 40% on other expenses like food or bills. by the time we have any money left over, it's usually put into savings in case of an emergency and isn't really enough to do much with. most of us know that even a job you've had for a few years could be lost next time there's another "once in a lifetime financial crisis" and god only knows if you do save up and buy your dream guitar, you feel bad because everyone's always saying "you could have put that money towards a house"

although, i do also think it's a bit of a speculative bubble too. i've noticed many of the folk who have been pushing up the prices of vintage guitars are baby boomers and what happens when they slowly start dying off? what happens to their guitar collections? do people of my age really care about the connection a 68 les paul has to jimmy page? not enough to spend $200000k buying into the clout that it brings. do they care about the connection that a 50's telecaster has to keith richards? not really. honestly, i notice a lot of folk around my age making the best of "current" instruments. "i can't have the 64 jaguar BUT i can mod up a squier to be more like the 64 and i can do that over time"
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Re: Vintage market

Post by johnnysomersett » Sun Jun 19, 2022 11:37 pm

A certain amount of the price rises we can see on places like Reverb is people factoring in the increasing fees as well. Maybe 3 times in the last 2 years I've saved large chunks contacting the sellers/shops and buying direct. I saved a thousand dollars straight-up (and got free shipping from the US to UK) on my 64 Jag buying direct from Willie's over the Reverb price.

Vintage Jaguars will always be cheaper than Jazzmasters, they always have been. If they were 25.5 scale then they'd be up there no doubt but there is that shortscale stigma that many don't get on with.

Fortunately for me, I don't care if a guitar has been refinished so I can aim for the cheaper end of the market (and there's more haggle room).
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Re: Vintage market

Post by eggwheat » Mon Jun 20, 2022 6:22 am

Wow...I just looked on reverb. I said 6 months ago these guitars were(comparatively) vastly undervalued still..that a 59/58 should be £20k not £8-10K. and there it is in record time. There just a massive inflationary shift thats been going on for the past 2 years or so...and its happening across the board.

Literally everywhere I turn...everything I'm into.. Motorbikes, guitars..music equipment, pinball, arcade machines...everything is vastly inflated. I work in electronics and sold two piece of test gear for three times what I paid 2 years ago.

Even my VW transporter is worth 8k more that I paid for it 2 years ago!

Not that we're better off...fuel is double, food is double, heating is double.

I'm afraid the world's gone insane..and I do wonder where this will all end.

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