1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
User avatar
BTL
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by BTL » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:33 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:59 am
Honestly? I'd love to get an aged refinish. But I'm not sure I should.
Yes, and I made that comment based on my impression of your views on vintage guitars. I'm not sure about the UK, but there are a lot of folks here in the US who can freshen up the finish on a vintage guitar in a way that will honor its provenance while addressing obvious areas of neglect and abuse.

In the classic car world, barn finds are a lot of fun, but they usually end up getting restored, either to be driven or to be sold along. That said, as pristine originals become more uncommon, the market is trending towards rewarding originality over fresh-from-the-factory beauty. However, I don't know if that paradigm translates directly to a specimen that has obvious signs of neglect and abuse.

At the end of the day, it's your guitar. Do with it what you will.
Owner, Lowe Custom Guitars

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Fri Aug 06, 2021 12:30 pm

BeeTL wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:33 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:59 am
Honestly? I'd love to get an aged refinish. But I'm not sure I should.
Yes, and I made that comment based on my impression of your views on vintage guitars. I'm not sure about the UK, but there are a lot of folks here in the US who can freshen up the finish on a vintage guitar in a way that will honor its provenance while addressing obvious areas of neglect and abuse.

In the classic car world, barn finds are a lot of fun, but they usually end up getting restored, either to be driven or to be sold along. That said, as pristine originals become more uncommon, the market is trending towards rewarding originality over fresh-from-the-factory beauty. However, I don't know if that paradigm translates directly to a specimen that has obvious signs of neglect and abuse.

At the end of the day, it's your guitar. Do with it what you will.
If it did it, it wouldn't be a freshen-up... It would be a whole new colour (likely OTM or BMM). I've owned classic cars and I know what you mean. There's a market both for original untouched examples and a whole swathe of people that want a nice shiny restored one. If anything, a restored car is almost always worth more...even if it's not the original colour. It's the exact opposite of the guitar world.

What I have to work out is if I care more about the guitars long-term resale value to me or its long-term pleasure value to me. I may grow to love the red, I don't know. But almost every red guitar I've ever owned has ended up being repainted. Hell, my No.1 was, ironically, a MIJ CAR 66BB Jazzmaster when I got it - but hasn't been red for almost a decade now!...

Image
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
sookwinder
Mods
Mods
Posts: 11179
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2006 6:47 pm
Location: Melbourne Australia

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by sookwinder » Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:23 pm

My comment about true 67 model is that over the years I have seen vey few jags with 67 pickups in them
Many have been real custom colours (I don’t regard CAR as a real custom colour as it is very common)
So if your jag does have 67 pickups it is a rare bird
relaxing alternative to doing actual work ...

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Fri Aug 06, 2021 9:18 pm

sookwinder wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 7:23 pm
My comment about true 67 model is that over the years I have seen vey few jags with 67 pickups in them
Many have been real custom colours (I don’t regard CAR as a real custom colour as it is very common)
So if your jag does have 67 pickups it is a rare bird
I see. Yes, I would be inclined to say the same about CAR - there definitely seems to be an abundance of them. Coincidentally the same shop this came from to the previous owner has a '67 Jaguar in factory Black for sale at the moment with an October 66 neck and 67 pickups on Reverb at the moment. They want £6k for it.

I have a feeling I could likely list this as a 67 then, with proper pictures, on there and potentially make a tidy profit if I'm patient. There's probably a fair few people out there looking for 'birth year' guitars that are the right age to have a little money to burn. But, at the moment it sounds and plays too nice to consider selling on just for the sake of trying to find a more fun colour. At the end of the day I'm not into this to make money or have 'a collection'...I'm into it to play the damn things.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
timtam
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2729
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:42 am
Location: Melbourne

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by timtam » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:22 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
timtam wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:53 pm
What year did bridges change to non-domed on top of the posts ?
Was there ever a consensus on this? I've seen both flat and domed scattered among all different years. I forgot to mention that I said to the guy I thought it might not be the original bridge (and forgot to post the picture I took too...

Image
An obvious quick check would be the screw gauges and lengths. Original MIA (up to current MIA) were #4-40, 5/8" (15.9mm) for the intonation screws, and also #4-40 for the saddle and bridge height grub screws (they take a 0.05" [1.27mm] allen key). If OTOH it happened to be an MIJ bridge for example, the screws would all be M3, the allen key 1.5mm, and the intonation screws 18mm long. The difference between the 15.9mm and 18mm intonation screw length is often quite clear to see. Yours are tending in that direction.
"I just knew I wanted to make a sound that was the complete opposite of a Les Paul, and that’s pretty much a Jaguar." Rowland S. Howard.

User avatar
PorkyPrimeCut
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 24464
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Leipzig
Contact:

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:57 pm

I just saw the CS Jaguar you're selling, now that you have this one.

It's very nice but personally I think this Jag, even with the few cosmetic issues it has, is on another level.
A complete no-brainer, IMHO.
You think you can't, you wish you could, I know you can, I wish you would. Slip inside this house as you pass by.

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Fri Aug 06, 2021 11:00 pm

timtam wrote:
Fri Aug 06, 2021 10:22 pm
johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:55 pm
timtam wrote:
Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:53 pm
What year did bridges change to non-domed on top of the posts ?
Was there ever a consensus on this? I've seen both flat and domed scattered among all different years. I forgot to mention that I said to the guy I thought it might not be the original bridge (and forgot to post the picture I took too...

Image
An obvious quick check would be the screw gauges and lengths. Original MIA (up to current MIA) were #4-40, 5/8" (15.9mm) for the intonation screws, and also #4-40 for the saddle and bridge height grub screws (they take a 0.05" [1.27mm] allen key). If OTOH it happened to be an MIJ bridge for example, the screws would all be M3, the allen key 1.5mm, and the intonation screws 18mm long. The difference between the 15.9mm and 18mm intonation screw length is often quite clear to see. Yours are tending in that direction.
Well, that's easy enough to check.
#4-40 is 2.845mm. On the 'US' bridge...

Image

On an old 2008/9 MIJ...

Image

Internal length...

Image

External length...

Image

It definitely takes an imperial/standard Allen key...

Image

(The MIJ won't accept any of my imperial keys and, weirdly, I can't find my metric set)

So, I don't know. There seems to be a bit of both.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
BTL
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1450
Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2011 1:24 pm
Contact:

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by BTL » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:20 am

There is definitely crossover between SAE and Metric Allen keys in the larger sizes, so I'd expect that to be true for the smaller ones as well:

https://handtoolessentials.com/blog/too ... -hex-keys/
Owner, Lowe Custom Guitars

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:29 am

BeeTL wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:20 am
There is definitely crossover between SAE and Metric Allen keys in the larger sizes, so I'd expect that to be true for the smaller ones as well:

https://handtoolessentials.com/blog/too ... -hex-keys/
Yeah, I've been having to deal with that for year with work as well as hobbies. Some are fine to interchange but often the smaller ones are a little more specific (tolerances on tiny parts tends be be way smaller).

I assumed the bridge wasn't original when I first stripped it down in front of the guy selling it as I noticed the lack of domes. As soon as a Staytrem or Mustang arrives it'll just go in the case anyway so not that bothered.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
JamesSGBrown
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 714
Joined: Fri May 04, 2012 1:36 pm
Location: Birmingham, UK

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JamesSGBrown » Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:58 am

This is so bloody lovely. Burnt headstock and all! I think it has so much character. If you ever fancy selling to another UK OSG-er then can I get first refusal :-[

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:11 am

JamesSGBrown wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:58 am
This is so bloody lovely. Burnt headstock and all! I think it has so much character. If you ever fancy selling to another UK OSG-er then can I get first refusal :-[
I don't see why not....bizarrely the guy who sold it to me was called James Brown (I shit you not)
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by Embenny » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:20 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:11 am
JamesSGBrown wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:58 am
This is so bloody lovely. Burnt headstock and all! I think it has so much character. If you ever fancy selling to another UK OSG-er then can I get first refusal :-[
I don't see why not....bizarrely the guy who sold it to me was called James Brown (I shit you not)
When you bought it from him, did he get up, or stay on the scene? Perhaps...like a sex machine, even?
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:26 am

mbene085 wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:20 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:11 am
JamesSGBrown wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 7:58 am
This is so bloody lovely. Burnt headstock and all! I think it has so much character. If you ever fancy selling to another UK OSG-er then can I get first refusal :-[
I don't see why not....bizarrely the guy who sold it to me was called James Brown (I shit you not)
When you bought it from him, did he get up, or stay on the scene? Perhaps...like a sex machine, even?
I mean, he did do a killer 360° twirl on his way out and a cool sideways foot-shuffle move down my driveway - which was kinda sexy I guess. Does that count?
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

User avatar
Embenny
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 10363
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by Embenny » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:30 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:26 am
I mean, he did do a killer 360° twirl on his way out and a cool sideways foot-shuffle move down my driveway - which was kinda sexy I guess. Does that count?
Only if it made you feel good, and you knew that you would.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.

User avatar
JSett
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 8803
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2009 1:33 pm
Location: Old Hampshire, Old England

Re: 1967 Jaguar, Candy Apple Red

Post by JSett » Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:31 am

mbene085 wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:30 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:26 am
I mean, he did do a killer 360° twirl on his way out and a cool sideways foot-shuffle move down my driveway - which was kinda sexy I guess. Does that count?
Only if it made you feel good, and you knew that you would.
It did, but I was already primed for the satisfaction by snagging this sweet guitar - so he didn't need to do much
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

Post Reply