OffsetGuitars.com

Now, we all know what's happened to the vintage guitar market over the last few years when it comes to our beloved offsets. What were not all that long ago pretty affordable vintage Fenders (in the grand scheme of things) have all but shot up into the Stratosphere - pun intended. I made the mistake, like many of us, of not thinking to hold onto any of the ones I owned in my teens that by today's standards were embarrassingly cheap. Still, hindsight and all that.

My question for today is regarding modifying vintage guitars and the morals behind doing or not doing it in today's world. These guitars are not going to get cheaper, history has taught us this.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that I'm seriously considering buying myself an old 65-75 Jaguar and making it into what I want it to be (probably a JagBlaster). I don't want a modern one. I like my guitars beat up and gnarly and wearing their years like a badge of honour. I don't like feeling scared of accidentally chipping a finish or having to baby them. To me they're tools to be wrangled and strangled into barking.

So is it blasphemy to spend £2500-3500, while they're still that 'low', on a vintage Fender and start pulling stuff out, routing for humbuckers and making the collectors cry?

Obviously I wouldn't consider doing this to a good example (and probably wouldn't spend the money people are asking for them anyway) but if I bought, for example, a beat to hell '65 with a couple of non-original parts already and went at it - would I be facing the gallows? Would it make me an arsehole?

Opinions, scathing or otherwise, openly invited

Picture of a familiar example for interest:

I'd like to think you'd be able to find something with "issues" that suits your price range, if you bide your time. A guitar that already had routes under the guard, changed tuners, modern electronics or a refinned body.

Am I deluded in thinking this kind of thing would crop up more frequently than a more unmolested example?

PorkyPrimeCut wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:44 pm

I'd like to think you'd be able to find something with "issues" that suits your price range, if you bide your time. A guitar that already had routes under the guard, changed tuners, modern electronics or a refinned body.

Am I deluded in thinking this kind of thing would crop up more frequently than a more unmolested example?

There seems to be a few dotted around the world at any one time on the usual platforms, all refins - and with varying degrees of 'already fucked-with' going on - for £2100-4000 before I would start to haggle down with the seller. There's actually a lot of supposedly all-original ones for sale, but they're £5k+ and I'm not spending that much!

If you're planning on being brutal with rerouting, modding etc why not just do it to a MIJ/CIJ or MIM?
I'm not fussed either way about what others may want to do to vintage guitars, but at least your initial outlay on a Japanese or Mexican instrument will be far smaller, and the availability much broader

I think if you find one that's already been fucked with there's no harm being done if you fuck with it more. Well, I wouldn't start sawing off horns or otherwise altering the body shape. But say it has been routed previously, well, it's never going to be a collector's piece anyway. Unless you make it one.

koiom wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:31 pm

If you're planning on being brutal with rerouting, modding etc why not just do it to a MIJ/CIJ or MIM?
I'm not fussed either way about what others may want to do to vintage guitars, but at least your initial outlay on a Japanese or Mexican instrument will be far smaller, and the availability much broader

This just comes down to a matter of preference. I enjoy old guitars more, and are more inclined to bond with and keep them.

Ceylon wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:46 pm

I think if you find one that's already been fucked with there's no harm being done if you fuck with it more. Well, I wouldn't start sawing off horns or otherwise altering the body shape. But say it has been routed previously, well, it's never going to be a collector's piece anyway. Unless you make it one.

This was my thinking.

It’s your money & your preference. One person’s cultural terrorism is another’s liberation.

i've kinda been having this thought process on and off for a while. while not "vintage vintage" i was using my vista jagmaster as a main and while it was beat to fuck, i was looking at the prices of them going up and thinking "do i want to be the one who reduces the number of these by 1 or do i want to keep it around for future generations to see?" given how i play live, i decided it's best maybe keep it as a once in a while guitar.

i know you mentioned you like vintage instruments but for less money, you could probably build a guitar that will do what you need without having to route an old instrument.

I'd even argue that while guitars are just objects, they have some sort of historical significance and value in themselves. THE Fender Jaguar had a cultural, sonic and aesthetic impact on the world of music from 1962 to the present day. But any Fender Jaguar you yourself get your hands onhas an additional historical value that it itself accumulated by being in the hands of musicians. I have nothing but respect and appreciation for the restorations of hopeless cases that Will on here has done. But if a guitar has already been routed out, refinished, had parts exchanged et cetera, then both restoring it and modding it further is kind of fucking with that significance. In some cases I think going further with making it a player's guitar - your player's guitar - is more in keeping with the life it's already led.

Take Cobain's Jaguar, that was already modded to play punk on when he got it, or any of the Sonic Youth offsets. They're iconic largely because they got fucked with, and even with offset prices rising today no one would dream of restoring either of them to stock.

viewtopic.php?f=41&t=90134#p1258634

After reading this topic i don't think there are any moral values towards vintage instruments anyway/ s.
Seriously though, as others have pointed out, it's your money and your personal preference. If you are not going for a mint condition example ( which you probably won't, due to crazy asking prices) it's fine by me!

I guess another way to look at this is if you do believe generally in the value of preserving vintage guitars, what prior alterations or other factors would qualify an instrument for further mods. I don’t think I’d be willing to route a refinished Fender if that was the only modification, but if it was already routed for humbuckers, I’d happily buy a new guard and swap pickups. I’ve been thinking lately about taking a 70s Musicmaster and adding a JM style trem/bridge and a second pickup, but I’m not certain I’d be willing to do that to a complete guitar, whereas I’d be fine with buying vintage parts and messing with it.

Personally I'd not rout a vintage guitar, except maybe if it already had say a bridge humbucker rout hacked into it at some point in its past then adding another for the neck pickup would seem reasonable. Anything that doesnt involve chopping bits of wood out is fair game for me though

Well, I definitely have a personal 'line' that I feel I wouldn't cross, not only for moral reasons but also financial. As much as I'd love to (and could afford to if I really wanted) buy an example in a really rare colour and do what the hell I want to it but I'm also not a complete c*nt and do actually have some respect for the historical value of things.

That Burgundy Mist one South Side are selling for $15k? Sure, I could afford it, but I certainly wouldn't chop the fucker about. A CAR or Sunburst version? Well, they're almost ten-a-penny really and I genuinely wouldn't care about messing about with one of those if it was a little road-worn. And I'd definitely change the colour.

I think, if it had a few small things like unoriginal pots, maybe a replacement bridge, then I'd possibly stop and look for another.

Here’s a question: what significance does a vintage guitar in some private collection hold beyond monetary value?

sal paradise wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 02, 2021 9:49 am

Here’s a question: what significance does a vintage guitar in some private collection hold beyond monetary value?

Nothing except bragging rights. I've always been a vocal opponent of people who collect guitars and don't play them. It's a waste.