Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
Post Reply
User avatar
ohm-men
Expat
Expat
Posts: 4174
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:01 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by ohm-men » Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:29 am

Hi All,

As of late I've became quiet intrigued with Late 60's/early 70's 3 tone Sunburst finishes.

I was always under the impression that theywere sprayed;
- Yellow first, followed by black and that the red band was sprayed last.

But then I came upon this;

Image

A "72 Jaguar. If you look carefully, you see red paint under the black paint.
This would mean that,
- Yellow first, then Red and that black was sprayed last.

But it's hard to see if this was the case. It looks as if at the rear neck screw holes the red sits under the black. but there are no traces of red at the front neck screw holes.... And is there or isn't there red overspray on the black or is it vice versa?

However, if you look at mid 70"s 3 TSB it looks different....

Image

A" 77 Jazzmaster
Here it looks as it the red was sprayed over the black band, as you can see red overspray in the black band.
This is something you don't see on the 72 Jaguar.
As a result the red apears more vibrant on the 77 then on the 72....

So, what do you think?
Curious to hear about your insights and idea's regarding the subject.

Reason for this is I want to recreate a early 70's 3TSB on a Jazzmaster.
I'm leaning toward the '72 if I want to use a tort guard
But I also have a 3 ply black guard that would look nice with a late 70's burst....

User avatar
mbene085
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 6651
Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by mbene085 » Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:32 am

My impression had been that black was always sprayed last, and the relative prominence and vibrancy of the red came down to a combination of how wide it was sprayed and how much UV light exposure it got, since the red fades by far the fastest. I'd be happy to be corrected if that isn't the case.

User avatar
fuzzjunkie
Expat
Expat
Posts: 5519
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:32 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by fuzzjunkie » Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:26 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:32 am
My impression had been that black was always sprayed last, and the relative prominence and vibrancy of the red came down to a combination of how wide it was sprayed and how much UV light exposure it got, since the red fades by far the fastest. I'd be happy to be corrected if that isn't the case.
That’s my impression too, but I am more familiar with pre-CBS guitars. I never had much interest in ‘70s Fenders, or most ‘70s Gibson or Gretsch for that matter, so I have no expertise there. Painting red over black is something I never considered.

User avatar
JVG
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 794
Joined: Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:54 pm
Location: Sydney, Straya

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by JVG » Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:50 pm

I’d also ever considered that red might be sprayed last. I’m struggling to think of a reason why this would be done.
Perhaps someone will enlighten us!

User avatar
ohm-men
Expat
Expat
Posts: 4174
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:01 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by ohm-men » Tue Mar 23, 2021 9:41 am

Thanks for your thoughts and insights.

The thing that makes we wonder is this "Custom shop?" clip on how they do a faded 3 TSB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_tQMT83TLQ

Here the red is sprayed last. Looks convincing to me as well....
So hence I'm somewhat curious if this is just for the CS purpose ?

User avatar
Mechanical Birds
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2533
Joined: Sat Aug 22, 2015 1:24 pm

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:34 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:32 am
My impression had been that black was always sprayed last, and the relative prominence and vibrancy of the red came down to a combination of how wide it was sprayed and how much UV light exposure it got, since the red fades by far the fastest. I'd be happy to be corrected if that isn't the case.
I know nothing for sure but this is what it’s always seemed like or what would make the most sense/be easiest in terms of noticing imperfections and being able to fix it.

Yellow sealed body - red, bringing it in a little closer each pass - black to put the cap on it

User avatar
rexter
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1649
Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:44 am
Location: Norwich, East of England

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by rexter » Sat Mar 27, 2021 1:14 am

I’ve always just assumed that red is sprayed last - that’s how I spray them but in no way claiming that to be THE WAY ;D
The black band has to be more intense and opaque than the others and as it’s covering the sides (which it makes sense to do before the faces). Red just melts into the black, often not visible over it at all once the clear hits that overspray.

Honestly don’t know about the 70s one really apart from it looks like they went back to the earlier style forgoing the pigmented yellow base. Like all fender things back in the day perhaps different people did them in different ways or just occasionally changed things around?

User avatar
ohm-men
Expat
Expat
Posts: 4174
Joined: Tue Sep 26, 2006 5:01 am
Location: Belgium
Contact:

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by ohm-men » Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:47 am

Thanks for all the input and comments.
I took the plunge and painted the body I was working on.
I did the yellow tinted body, followed by the red band and doing black last.
In all I'm happy with the outcome, looks quiet good.
It seams the black melts into the red, but I assume it works just as good the other way arround.
I did notice that the red bleed a bit though the black, which I quiet like.

User avatar
PorkyPrimeCut
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 23219
Joined: Tue Nov 28, 2006 7:46 am
Location: Leipzig
Contact:

Re: Can anyone confirm how late/early 70's Sunburst finishes were done?

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:01 pm

Probably a difficult question to get a definitive answer to but what's the general deal with black nitro? Is it usually jet black or can you get "vintage" black that's a tiny bit duller. Slightly grey even?
The guy who refinned my body deliberately mixed his own black to get the effect I'm talking about.
You think you can't, you wish you could, I know you can, I wish you would. Slip inside this house as you pass by.

Post Reply