..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Sauerkraut » Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm

bterry wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:49 pm
Exactly which part is selfish? There’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking about how and how much these guitars were used, seen, etc.

A cursory internet search would lead you to old articles in magazines where some of these guitars were featured/written about and who are you to say how they were used? How would you even know?

Comparing an average musician/guitar player to Sonic Youth is a bit of a fucking stretch, don’t you think?
True. Good points.

As for the part I didn’t quote, that’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking, equally uninformed and needlessly inflammatory.
Last edited by Sauerkraut on Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by bterry » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:02 pm

Sauerkraut wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm
bterry wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:49 pm
Exactly which part is selfish? There’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking about how and how much these guitars were used, seen, etc.

A cursory internet search would lead you to old articles in magazines where some of these guitars were featured/written about and who are you to say how they were used? How would you even know?

Comparing an average musician/guitar player to Sonic Youth is a bit of a fucking stretch, don’t you think?
True. Good points.

As for the part I didn’t quote, that’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking, and equally uninformed.
It wasn’t an assumption, it was a question. I want to know how you would actually use these guitars less selfishly.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Sauerkraut » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:04 pm

bterry wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:02 pm
Sauerkraut wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:57 pm
bterry wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 2:49 pm
Exactly which part is selfish? There’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking about how and how much these guitars were used, seen, etc.

A cursory internet search would lead you to old articles in magazines where some of these guitars were featured/written about and who are you to say how they were used? How would you even know?

Comparing an average musician/guitar player to Sonic Youth is a bit of a fucking stretch, don’t you think?
True. Good points.

As for the part I didn’t quote, that’s an amazing amount of assumption in your thinking, and equally uninformed.
It wasn’t an assumption, it was a question. I want to know how you would actually use these guitars less selfishly.
I suppose you could let other people play them instead of stashing them away in a storage space for decades.

Remember he hadn’t been in there in 3 months, during a pandemic, so I do actually think it’s safe to assume he wasn’t using them an awful lot.
Last edited by Sauerkraut on Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Sauerkraut » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:07 pm

Maybe he could do something like these folks do:

https://smemmusic.ch/en/about

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by andy_tchp » Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 pm

There also weren't a lot of sessions happening in studios during the height of the pandemic.


BTW I assume you're similarly upset at Sonic Youth's selfishness having literally hundreds of pieces of vintage and rare equipment that haven't seen use for years or even decades, wasting away in their collection on the shelves @ Echo Canyon? ;D
Last edited by andy_tchp on Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:34 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Pacafeliz » Sat Mar 06, 2021 12:20 am

Image
i love delay SO much ...that i procrastinate all the time.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by kapepper » Sat Mar 06, 2021 2:06 am

Sauerkraut wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:07 pm
Maybe he could do something like these folks do:

https://smemmusic.ch/en/about
Or like the songbirds museum.... to bad it already had to close....

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Sauerkraut » Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:02 am

andy_tchp wrote:
Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:28 pm
There also weren't a lot of sessions happening in studios during the height of the pandemic.


BTW I assume you're similarly upset at Sonic Youth's selfishness having literally hundreds of pieces of vintage and rare equipment that haven't seen use for years or even decades, wasting away in their collection on the shelves @ Echo Canyon? ;D
Good luck bringing 200+ guitars to a session.
Anyway, I’m not at all upset or jealous, I just find it odd. I didn’t expect emotions to run so high that some people feel the need to get personal and start swearing (not you, Andy).

As for SY, as far as I’m aware, they sold a lot of stuff they aren’t using over the past ten years. Including lots of rare equipment. Of what remains, I don’t know what they do or don’t use, neither do you. Admittedly, I don’t know in this case either, but I think the 3 month window gives us a strong clue. Not much of SYs gear is anywhere near as rare as the guitars in this collection, let alone in pristine condition. I’m not suggesting you can’t store away stuff (who knows, you might use it again at some later point in time). But to me there’s a difference between storing gear you’ve modded and used for decades vs storing a massive amount of pristine rare vintage guitars and leaving them untouched for months on end. Especially if - and I admit that’s a big IF, because I’m making assumptions here and I might well be wrong - this is one person’s collection. This is because, to me, there’s a difference between collecting objects that have no function beyond aesthetics and collecting functional objects like these, which could be enjoyed by a big number of other people.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Paco » Sat Mar 06, 2021 8:04 am

Someone had to put this clip of a little tour of the actual stolen collection for future reference:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7-5io1 ... alPhoenixx

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by mbene085 » Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:09 am

It's interesting watching the intense attempts at gatekeeping vintage guitar ownership in this thread.

According to various people in this thread, this owner:

-Doesn't deserve to own these guitars if they aren't playing each of them at a specified and arbitrary interval

-Has been harming others who apparently are entitled to marginally lower prices from more guitars being "on the market" (even though there are a number of false assumptions in that line of thinking)

-Has been harming others by preventing others from enjoying these inanimate objects more than the current owner could possibly be enjoying them

-Suffers from a mental illness, because spending a lifetime collecting beautiful instruments couldn't possible be a source of happiness or be reflective of someone who recognized their potential and built up a retirement fund that they could play and touch and derive joy from instead of staring at numbers on a page

-Deserved to have their prized collection stolen, because owning something that makes you jealous means they had it coming.

Grow up, people. Nobody "deserves" a specific inanimate object. We all deserve things like food, shelter, safety, love and free will, not a theoretical opportunity to bid on the world's only gold hardware B&B Jaguar (which will go to someone richer than you, providing more opportunity for complaints that they must not intend to play it or enjoy it as much as you).

You know absolutely nothing about the circumstances surrounding this collection. Why were they in storage? Maybe the owner moved, like from their house to a nursing home. Think of the age bracket that is most likely to own many mint condition 60 year-old guitars. Or maybe the owner died and their estate was being settled, so they had to move the guitars to a neutral location while the house was being sold and the fate of the guitars was being decided.

How could the owner go 3 months without knowing they were gone? Maybe they were in the hospital, or like I said above, are dead. Maybe they've developed dementia, stopped being able to play years ago, and the theft was a form of elder abuse by someone close to them who planned this out carefully, moving the guitars out of the house and then eventually stealing them when everyone else was otherwise occupied.

I've really been feeling that this forum has been becoming more negative and more toxic recently, and this thread is just full of nonsense and nastiness.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Mar 06, 2021 11:05 am

Pro tip: don't ever worry about what other people have or what they do with their possessions. There's nothing but unhappiness down that road.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by gringopig » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:43 pm

I was looking at the list and shared with a friend who is pretty sure some of these can be seen here:

https://www.instagram.com/p/CKZb-lJM4nV ... e3038xk92s
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJUuFwNsNg1 ... pomzksmdwj
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJWS9AksxRK ... zdmn0b6t7k
https://www.instagram.com/p/CJzliPDsGr4 ... rwzxhohhyd

The sonic blue JM for example:

L52678 is on the list. Now, the guitar posted by that user is L52X7X but the last digit looks like 8. I'm not 100% but the user is the "Vintage Sales and Acquisitions Manager for Guitar Center"

Maybe the owner of these guitars should check it out.

Instead of getting all worked up about some guy's motivation in collecting, let's all try to help him get them back.

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by JVG » Sat Mar 06, 2021 1:55 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:09 am
I've really been feeling that this forum has been becoming more negative and more toxic recently, and this thread is just full of nonsense and nastiness.
Lots of negativity here too https://youtu.be/nPD1CuPxH_M

On a lighter note, i’ve been fantasising about walking into a room with all those guitars (even though none are lefties....grrr). Man, it would be mind-blowing to see all those in one place, especially the Jags. The slightly musty smell of old guitar cases, and the sweetness of cracking lacquer....

I would definitely need a cold shower after that!

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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Mar 06, 2021 6:49 pm

mbene085 wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 9:09 am
According to various people in this thread, this owner:

-Doesn't deserve to own these guitars if they aren't playing each of them at a specified and arbitrary interval

-Has been harming others who apparently are entitled to marginally lower prices from more guitars being "on the market" (even though there are a number of false assumptions in that line of thinking)

-Has been harming others by preventing others from enjoying these inanimate objects more than the current owner could possibly be enjoying them

-Suffers from a mental illness, because spending a lifetime collecting beautiful instruments couldn't possible be a source of happiness or be reflective of someone who recognized their potential and built up a retirement fund that they could play and touch and derive joy from instead of staring at numbers on a page

-Deserved to have their prized collection stolen, because owning something that makes you jealous means they had it coming.
Yep, decent summary of the, er, logic being displayed, but you missed:

- Is actually to blame for having suffered the theft

- Is a criminal, and staged the theft as part of an effort to commit insurance fraud

- Is selfish for not regularly checking in on something as important as a stash of equipment for a whole 3 months(!), during something as minor as a global pandemic that's killed half a million (give or take) fellow citizens of his country.
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Re: ..pssst...wanna buy a vintage offset?

Post by andy_tchp » Sat Mar 06, 2021 7:25 pm

Sauerkraut wrote:
Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:02 am
Good luck bringing 200+ guitars to a session.
That's a level of obtuseness much higher than usually seen here. Well done! :D

You know, for sure, that none of this equipment (individual pieces, not the whole collection of '200+ guitars', just to clarify) was ever quietly loaned out to known/trusted connections for recording sessions, photographs, or display?

My initial speculation upon hearing about the theft was that a chain of trust like this had been broken, and/or someone had fucked up and disclosed too much information to a party they shouldn't have.
As for SY, as far as I’m aware, they sold a lot of stuff they aren’t using over the past ten years. Including lots of rare equipment. Of what remains, I don’t know what they do or don’t use, neither do you.
Oh, OK. I got a pretty good insight watching Lee Ranaldo's "Show us your junk" episode a year or two back (which is worth a watch BTW).

IIRC they sold a couple of dozen bits of gear if that. But it's immaterial, they own all that stuff and can do whatever they please with it.
Admittedly, I don’t know in this case either, but I think the 3 month window gives us a strong clue. Not much of SYs gear is anywhere near as rare as the guitars in this collection, let alone in pristine condition. I’m not suggesting you can’t store away stuff (who knows, you might use it again at some later point in time). But to me there’s a difference between storing gear you’ve modded and used for decades vs storing a massive amount of pristine rare vintage guitars and leaving them untouched for months on end. Especially if - and I admit that’s a big IF, because I’m making assumptions here and I might well be wrong - this is one person’s collection. This is because, to me, there’s a difference between collecting objects that have no function beyond aesthetics and collecting functional objects like these, which could be enjoyed by a big number of other people.
Oh well, you've mind up your mind based on nothing but assumptions. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd suggest it's exactly the same collecting mindset of people who own or 'collect' 10, 20, 30+ cheap 'non-vintage' guitars and aren't even in productive bands :whistle:

But that's acceptable and unselfish, because unlike this guy's collection, they're worth jack shit. 👍
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.

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