Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Mechanical Birds
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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Thu May 20, 2021 11:32 pm

kaptainkaffeine wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:05 am
graceless wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 4:00 pm
You've just got to be really patient. I would be very wary of buying anything sight unseen online. It's sooo easy to get taken to hosetown. See if you can play one or a few in person before making a decision. The market is euphoric right now
Getting hosed is my real fear--I'm after something to keep and to play, not a collector's item. But if I'm honest with myself, I do want a nice one. American or Japanese, maybe some upgrades before or after I get it. That alone seems to push the price up to nearly $2000 at this point. :derp: I started looking on ebay too and realized I don't know enough to separate the real ones from the scams and fakes. And why are like 90% of ebay Jazzmasters sold from Japan? One guy had over 3000 items for sale and like 25 feedback. c'mon now.

Going into a shop and walking out with a guitar seems like the best way to go, especially now that things are kind of starting to open back up. Those crazy prices are reflected in stores too, though. CME is just down the way from me so I'll pop in there sometime and see if I fall in love with something. I got the "it has to be perfect on paper" brain worms from the internet though...ditching that is probably step one.
I’m absolutely certain that a bunch of those guitars don’t actually come from Japan. Instead it’s like *seller sees it for sale in another place with an asking price they’re confident they can make money on, so they simply repost the pictures from where ever and end up just buying the guitar they listed and having it shipped to the buyer and they think no one’s the wiser. If you look, you’ll notice several different listing for the same exact item - same pictures, half assed description, etc. usually with arbitrary differences in asking price.

I’ve reported this stuff several times but never gotten a reply or seen it go away which is ridiculous considering it’s in direct violation of their term agreement. People are monsters sometimes.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by bterry » Fri May 21, 2021 8:50 am

Yeah ebay is full of that shit, people listing other people’s gear at an upcharge. It’s insane they let that happen, but with CITES there is a huge market for import/export of guitars with Brazilian Rosewood and these third party entities are sending it all over the world using this method. They are often just international shipping conglomerates with companies based in the US/China/Japan.

They are on Reverb, too, but to skirt the rules they have regular accounts and pose as buyers - you can tell if you look at their transaction history, all buys (no sells) with Brazilian Rosewood.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Wucan » Fri May 21, 2021 10:18 am

Highnumbers wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:16 pm
kaptainkaffeine wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:05 am

I started looking on ebay too and realized I don't know enough to separate the real ones from the scams and fakes. And why are like 90% of ebay Jazzmasters sold from Japan? One guy had over 3000 items for sale and like 25 feedback. c'mon now.
Because there is an entire army of "resellers" in Japan who take the photos and description of guitars for sale by other Japanese dealers and post them for sale on eBay at inflated prices, hoping to be the middleman without having to actually outlay any cash. You buy the guitar, they turn around and buy it from the other Japanese dealer at a lower price and ship it to you.

So then you end up with the same guitar listed on eBay by 5+ sellers, and it looks like the market is much bigger than it is.

However, if you see something you like on eBay in Japan, use Google to find the original seller of the guitar and buy it at a much more reasonable price. In fact, I just did that last week with an original '69 Competition Mustang. There are still people on eBay trying to sell that guitar as we speak, and it's no longer available!
Something you can do as well is look up guitars on shops/classifieds, then use a proxy shipping service that will purchase the guitar then once they receive it within Japan ship it internationally to you (e.g. ZenMarket). Their fee will only be a small percentage of the price of the item. Shops like Ishibashi and TC Gakki ship the guitars themselves straight to you and no middleman is required. Ebay resellers still spam listings from these website though, so all you have to do is ignore these listings and order from the source lol

After doing some math though it's not suuuper worth ordering from Japan, unless it's stuff that's either only available there or way cheaper second-hand in Japan. Between the proxy fee, international shipping, exchange rate fee, import fee and probable "handling fee" it's gotta be something you can't normally get your hands on.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Highnumbers » Fri May 21, 2021 3:01 pm

Wucan wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 10:18 am
Highnumbers wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:16 pm
kaptainkaffeine wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 9:05 am

I started looking on ebay too and realized I don't know enough to separate the real ones from the scams and fakes. And why are like 90% of ebay Jazzmasters sold from Japan? One guy had over 3000 items for sale and like 25 feedback. c'mon now.
Because there is an entire army of "resellers" in Japan who take the photos and description of guitars for sale by other Japanese dealers and post them for sale on eBay at inflated prices, hoping to be the middleman without having to actually outlay any cash. You buy the guitar, they turn around and buy it from the other Japanese dealer at a lower price and ship it to you.

So then you end up with the same guitar listed on eBay by 5+ sellers, and it looks like the market is much bigger than it is.

However, if you see something you like on eBay in Japan, use Google to find the original seller of the guitar and buy it at a much more reasonable price. In fact, I just did that last week with an original '69 Competition Mustang. There are still people on eBay trying to sell that guitar as we speak, and it's no longer available!
Something you can do as well is look up guitars on shops/classifieds, then use a proxy shipping service that will purchase the guitar then once they receive it within Japan ship it internationally to you (e.g. ZenMarket). Their fee will only be a small percentage of the price of the item. Shops like Ishibashi and TC Gakki ship the guitars themselves straight to you and no middleman is required. Ebay resellers still spam listings from these website though, so all you have to do is ignore these listings and order from the source lol

After doing some math though it's not suuuper worth ordering from Japan, unless it's stuff that's either only available there or way cheaper second-hand in Japan. Between the proxy fee, international shipping, exchange rate fee, import fee and probable "handling fee" it's gotta be something you can't normally get your hands on.
Yep, in fact I bought a vintage Rickenbacker last month via ZenMarket and was pleasantly surprised at the entire experience. Excellent communication, very well packed and shipped to me in three days. The fees were nominal and they get a discounted rate through DHL that nearly pays for itself. No import fees/duties in the U.S. on U.S. produced goods, so it's not a big expense either.

The main benefit of ZenMarket is that you can buy items from Yahoo! Japan auctions, which easily displaces eBay as the main auction site in Japan. There are other proxy services (like Buyee) that cater to buying from Mercari auctions. The only major downside of these proxy services is there is no recourse if something is not as described - all sales are final, with no responsibility on the proxy service. Not a big deal if you know what you're looking at.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Mechanical Birds » Sun May 23, 2021 4:05 pm

Oh shit somebody already laid out my conspiracy lol I didn’t read the whole thread

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Wucan » Mon May 24, 2021 10:10 am

Highnumbers wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 3:01 pm
Wucan wrote:
Fri May 21, 2021 10:18 am
Highnumbers wrote:
Thu May 20, 2021 12:16 pm


Because there is an entire army of "resellers" in Japan who take the photos and description of guitars for sale by other Japanese dealers and post them for sale on eBay at inflated prices, hoping to be the middleman without having to actually outlay any cash. You buy the guitar, they turn around and buy it from the other Japanese dealer at a lower price and ship it to you.

So then you end up with the same guitar listed on eBay by 5+ sellers, and it looks like the market is much bigger than it is.

However, if you see something you like on eBay in Japan, use Google to find the original seller of the guitar and buy it at a much more reasonable price. In fact, I just did that last week with an original '69 Competition Mustang. There are still people on eBay trying to sell that guitar as we speak, and it's no longer available!
Something you can do as well is look up guitars on shops/classifieds, then use a proxy shipping service that will purchase the guitar then once they receive it within Japan ship it internationally to you (e.g. ZenMarket). Their fee will only be a small percentage of the price of the item. Shops like Ishibashi and TC Gakki ship the guitars themselves straight to you and no middleman is required. Ebay resellers still spam listings from these website though, so all you have to do is ignore these listings and order from the source lol

After doing some math though it's not suuuper worth ordering from Japan, unless it's stuff that's either only available there or way cheaper second-hand in Japan. Between the proxy fee, international shipping, exchange rate fee, import fee and probable "handling fee" it's gotta be something you can't normally get your hands on.
Yep, in fact I bought a vintage Rickenbacker last month via ZenMarket and was pleasantly surprised at the entire experience. Excellent communication, very well packed and shipped to me in three days. The fees were nominal and they get a discounted rate through DHL that nearly pays for itself. No import fees/duties in the U.S. on U.S. produced goods, so it's not a big expense either.

The main benefit of ZenMarket is that you can buy items from Yahoo! Japan auctions, which easily displaces eBay as the main auction site in Japan. There are other proxy services (like Buyee) that cater to buying from Mercari auctions. The only major downside of these proxy services is there is no recourse if something is not as described - all sales are final, with no responsibility on the proxy service. Not a big deal if you know what you're looking at.
I didn't know about Yahoo JP auctions... checked it out, just saw a '78 Mustang go for $1000. People asking almost $2000 for one on this side of the world lol

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by smjenkins » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:22 am

To prove that there are still some sane prices, it looks like GC has a '65 refin Jag for $3k.

https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Fende ... 6971384.gc

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by graceless » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:49 pm

The market seems to have cooled dramatically in the last few months, or plateau'd.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by johnnysomersett » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:31 pm

graceless wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:49 pm
The market seems to have cooled dramatically in the last few months, or plateau'd.
I was in my local guitar shop last week and chatting to the owner and he said the market had basically stopped dead entirely, nothing moving. Something is occuring and I'm not sure what.
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by PorkyPrimeCut » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:11 pm

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:31 pm
graceless wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:49 pm
The market seems to have cooled dramatically in the last few months, or plateau'd.
I was in my local guitar shop last week and chatting to the owner and he said the market had basically stopped dead entirely, nothing moving. Something is occuring and I'm not sure what.
People getting vaccinated, feeling like their lives are slowly returning to “normal” and resisting any more moments of impulse, or feeling like they have too much time & money on their hands, and keeping hold of their cash instead.... maybe?
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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Axolotl » Fri Jun 25, 2021 12:55 am

^^^ For sure it's a combination of things. Also being summer in the US, probably a lot of people prefer to spend some money on traveling/outdoor activities instead of gear? Since last summer was full of restrictions I'm sure a lot of people missed going to the beach, nature, etc.

I can't say I see a cooldown on ebay and reverb though, Offset prices are still pretty high, but it looks like less people are buying. That 3k refin Jag in guitar center is not precisely a bargain but wouldn't have lasted a week a few months ago.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by johnnysomersett » Fri Jun 25, 2021 8:11 am

PorkyPrimeCut wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:11 pm
johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:31 pm
graceless wrote:
Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:49 pm
The market seems to have cooled dramatically in the last few months, or plateau'd.
I was in my local guitar shop last week and chatting to the owner and he said the market had basically stopped dead entirely, nothing moving. Something is occuring and I'm not sure what.
People getting vaccinated, feeling like their lives are slowly returning to “normal” and resisting any more moments of impulse, or feeling like they have too much time & money on their hands, and keeping hold of their cash instead.... maybe?
Yeah, this is what my mind is saying too. Over here bars and restaurants are back open and live shows will be soon enough. I'm a tattooer for my living and the flurry of extra cash spending is slowing too.

Ah well, I did make some decent money flipping a few things during the pandemic that helped me out so can't complain. Kinda hoping that things will come down to a sensible level because of it. Eventually people will take a certain amount of loss on something once their GAS for something new kicks in hard
Silly Rabbit, don't you know scooped mids are for kids?

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by graceless » Thu Jul 08, 2021 7:24 am

Is this some weird refin or an even weirder factory color? The ad reads like it's factory...

Image

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by Sauerkraut » Thu Jul 08, 2021 1:59 pm

Wrong thread. You should post that in the „why did you do this thing to me?“ one.

What a horrendous finish. At least they don’t claim it’s original (though they also don’t say it’s not). Looks like a bowling ball or something.

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Re: Cheapest way into a vintage offset?

Post by muffonrat » Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:27 pm

adamrobertt wrote:
Tue Feb 09, 2021 9:22 am
I've never owned a vintage guitar and I want to try to get my hands on a vintage Fender before it becomes 100% out of reach for me. Right now, even refinned Jags and Jazzmasters are $4000 or $5000, which is out of my reach.

I've seen that Mustangs tend to be $2500 to $3500 depending on year, color, and condition. Are Coronados worth looking into? They might be affordable...

Basically I'm looking for a cool vintage Fender offset or related (basically not a strat or tele) for hopefully $3000 or less. Anyone have any pointers?
I managed to get a good deal on a 66 Mustang in local ebay. Of course many things on the guitar are not original but for the price I am very happy. I think good deals are still to be found but not so often any more and def needs patience. I was not planning in any way getting another Mustang but I saw the ad had the money and just did it!

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