NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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garyfanclub
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Re: NGD: 1965 Jag Refin

Post by garyfanclub » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 am

Yes! Onwards! Looking great, dude!

Could you just disassemble and soak/spray with thinner or would that damage the CFM?

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rbrcbr
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Re: NGD: 1965 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Fri Jan 25, 2019 9:40 am

garyfanclub wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:59 am
Yes! Onwards! Looking great, dude!

Could you just disassemble and soak/spray with thinner or would that damage the CFM?
Thanks man! I don't know how easily it would go through the blue but it would likely damage the CFM since it's exposed in some areas already. The thinner worked pretty well so it might be worth trying in certain areas. My tech tried thinner, then sanding on the contour and it worked well, but the smearing was my concern there - that maybe the thinner was contributing to that. Gonna try sanding today per Mike Adams advice after messaging him (our very own Puisheen here on OSG) as the scraping has left some burrs/marks in the finish. Looks almost like dull crayon. He says that can be buffed out, but to have a professional do that. Gonna swing by home depot today to grab some 400 grit sandpaper and try sanding instead. And a blacklight to see what's up with the neck.

More progress from last night with the pallet knife though:

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these are the marks I'm talking about.

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Doesn't look terrible but definitely isn't giving the appearance of a clean vintage finish. Also a fair bit of dinging has happen, as you can tell. But honestly I might be fine with how that looks, I want to play it anyway and am not super concerned with a pristine vintage finish. But I also would like to salvage it properly if possible.

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Re: NGD: 1965 Jag Refin

Post by Surfysonic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:07 am

Congrats on the '65 Jag! Pardon my ignorance, but what does CFM stand for? Charcoal Flake Metallic?
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Re: NGD: 1965 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:17 am

Surfysonic wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:07 am
Congrats on the '65 Jag! Pardon my ignorance, but what does CFM stand for? Charcoal Flake Metallic?
Thanks! Yeah, it's Charcoal Frost Metallic. From what I've read and been told, it's one of the rarest Fender Custom Colors to find on a vintage guitar. Which is sooooooo exciting hahaha

Also just realized I didn't change it - was talking to Mike Adams and since the pots are '66, you always use the latest dated piece to ID a guitar, so I suppose this one is actually a '66. There's so much paint everywhere else that it's hard to ID stuff that requires looking for body characteristics, but i'm gonna see if I can strip that stuff back too.

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by Surfysonic » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:04 pm

Very cool! Congrats on the '66 Jag! 8)
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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by Guitarman555 » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm

rbrcbr wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:29 pm
This post has been a long time coming, just finally got my hands on this one after 6 months or so.

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Nabbed it for $1950, needs work but I’m stoked on it.

Here are some photos - I don't want to swamp the thread with too much, so I'll post 2 links to all the detail shots so you guys can see what all is going on, those can be found here -> https://imgur.com/a/NfW5fC3 https://imgur.com/a/nExupeM

So this thing has been floating around for 6 months in the guitar center circuit, listed as a ‘66 refin. I first saw it on the GC site for $2k back in July and ended up putting it on layaway. I cancelled the layaway and it ended up selling soon after. Turns out it was bought and returned like 6 times over the past couple months. I’m assuming people were buying sight unseen and didn’t realize the decal was gone, gnarly route in the bridge and the refin was pretty bad. Whoever had it last had it one day past the return period and had to sell back to GC. They bought it back in and tagged it at $1799. I saw it pop up and immediately got it on layaway earlier this month and sold my AV65 to help fund it.

L series plate, and supposedly all original hardware/pickups/wiring. The pickguard has “AV” written in pen on the back - I’m assuming this means it’s a reissue guard. It’s sort of warped a bit, and the middle stripe that isn’t aged is sort of weird.

I think the neck is over sprayed - I see parts that have checking but it looks like it’s under another layer of clear. The worn in parts are sort of rough feeling. The body itself looks like it could be nitro, but doesn’t have a clear coat? Lots of orange peel looking spots. The chipped spots make it look like it’s poly though. There are 3 layers of paint under the pickguard - blue, then gold, then red, then what looks like charcoal frost?

I’m not sure if there’s any way to determine which was the original color in this state, but I’m considering sending it off to Danocaster for a proper refin so really anything is game. It’s pretty cool in its current state though and honestly the neck feels pretty good as it is!

Check out the linked albums, and let me know if anything seems off! Also would love any suggestions on how to determine what the finish actually is. Cheers!

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Cool guitar, how is the sound?

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:03 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm
rbrcbr wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:29 pm
This post has been a long time coming, just finally got my hands on this one after 6 months or so....
Cool guitar, how is the sound?
Thanks man! Sounds great. Really digging the neck pickup and middle position on this, nice and warm cleans, surprisingly not as bright as my jazzmaster. Even the bridge pickup on its own isn't ice-picky like I thought it would be. Really enjoying it overall, just really needs a new bridge badly.

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by Guitarman555 » Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 am

rbrcbr wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:03 pm
Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm
rbrcbr wrote:
Fri Jan 18, 2019 8:29 pm
This post has been a long time coming, just finally got my hands on this one after 6 months or so....
Cool guitar, how is the sound?
Thanks man! Sounds great. Really digging the neck pickup and middle position on this, nice and warm cleans, surprisingly not as bright as my jazzmaster. Even the bridge pickup on its own isn't ice-picky like I thought it would be. Really enjoying it overall, just really needs a new bridge badly.
Bridge is no problem, doesn´t cost anything. Head is kind of shaped or it has original shape?

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:00 pm

Guitarman555 wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 8:34 am
rbrcbr wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 8:03 pm
Guitarman555 wrote:
Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:31 pm

Cool guitar, how is the sound?
Thanks man! Sounds great. Really digging the neck pickup and middle position on this, nice and warm cleans, surprisingly not as bright as my jazzmaster. Even the bridge pickup on its own isn't ice-picky like I thought it would be. Really enjoying it overall, just really needs a new bridge badly.
Bridge is no problem, doesn´t cost anything. Head is kind of shaped or it has original shape?
Yeah, trying to order a Staytrem right now using a parcel forwarding service, like someone mentioned haha. Hoping it works and I can get it.

And no, I'm pretty sure it's the original shape, it's just the angle of the photo - almost like a foreshortening going on.

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by terminalvertigo » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:02 pm

looks good man, keep up with the peeling!
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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by mgeek » Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:07 pm

Ooh, totally following this...hope all the original paint is under there!

I've done it once with fantastic results- an original nitro cherry red finish was under three layers of blue, silver and white coats, and you could barely tell afterwards. Well worth being patient and seeing what can be done. Even if it looks a bit rough at points along the way, it's amazing how great it can look once buffed etc. Certainly not mint, but 'legit'

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:08 pm

terminalvertigo wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:02 pm
looks good man, keep up with the peeling!
Thanks! Slowly but surely.
mgeek wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:07 pm
Ooh, totally following this...hope all the original paint is under there!

I've done it once with fantastic results- an original nitro cherry red finish was under three layers of blue, silver and white coats, and you could barely tell afterwards. Well worth being patient and seeing what can be done. Even if it looks a bit rough at points along the way, it's amazing how great it can look once buffed etc. Certainly not mint, but 'legit'
Good to hear! Just curious - in this case, would buffing the finish cause the old finish to flow over the dings where the white shows through? Or only get rid of those scraping markings? Either way I'm looking into a local guy (referred by my tech) that supposedly does great finish work to see if he can buff it for me once I finish the scraping/sanding.

More updates soon, hopefully!

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by mgeek » Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:53 am

rbrcbr wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 9:08 pm
mgeek wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:07 pm
Ooh, totally following this...hope all the original paint is under there!

I've done it once with fantastic results- an original nitro cherry red finish was under three layers of blue, silver and white coats, and you could barely tell afterwards. Well worth being patient and seeing what can be done. Even if it looks a bit rough at points along the way, it's amazing how great it can look once buffed etc. Certainly not mint, but 'legit'
Good to hear! Just curious - in this case, would buffing the finish cause the old finish to flow over the dings where the white shows through? Or only get rid of those scraping markings? Either way I'm looking into a local guy (referred by my tech) that supposedly does great finish work to see if he can buff it for me once I finish the scraping/sanding.

More updates soon, hopefully!
No, and I wouldn't bother paying someone to do it either, I'm just talking about using T-Cut or some other buffing compound and a bit of elbow grease. Very simple stuff, and after you've done the hard work it's like the payoff

The chips through to white I would just live with, as long as they are not the result of you attacking it too enthusiastically. That looks like legitimate wear to me and they'd cost you extra on a new guitar! Perhaps not to your taste in terms of relicing, but the prize here is the og finish, innit ;)

*edit* just read up the thread and I'd be very cautious with sanding, especially if you haven't done it before, and I would start with something much finer than 400. It doesn't look like there is very good adhesion between the blue and the original finish, and I've had it on one guitar where slightly soapily wetsanding with 1000 grit just sort of knocked off all the overspray. IMO that's what you should be aiming for, rather than sanding through to the cfm

400 is fine when you are knocking down the high points of a newly sprayed finish, but what's under there is a finished, buffed out Fender finish from the sixties, that is probably about as thin as it can be. I'd worry that you'd get sand throughs, especially on the edges, and there's no going back from those.

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by rbrcbr » Wed Feb 06, 2019 9:22 am

mgeek wrote:
Wed Feb 06, 2019 12:53 am
No, and I wouldn't bother paying someone to do it either, I'm just talking about using T-Cut or some other buffing compound and a bit of elbow grease. Very simple stuff, and after you've done the hard work it's like the payoff

The chips through to white I would just live with, as long as they are not the result of you attacking it too enthusiastically. That looks like legitimate wear to me and they'd cost you extra on a new guitar! Perhaps not to your taste in terms of relicing, but the prize here is the og finish, innit ;)

*edit* just read up the thread and I'd be very cautious with sanding, especially if you haven't done it before, and I would start with something much finer than 400. It doesn't look like there is very good adhesion between the blue and the original finish, and I've had it on one guitar where slightly soapily wetsanding with 1000 grit just sort of knocked off all the overspray. IMO that's what you should be aiming for, rather than sanding through to the cfm

400 is fine when you are knocking down the high points of a newly sprayed finish, but what's under there is a finished, buffed out Fender finish from the sixties, that is probably about as thin as it can be. I'd worry that you'd get sand throughs, especially on the edges, and there's no going back from those.
Ah, gotcha. Yeaaaaaah the white spots are dings from where I was peeling back the finish and went too deep :'(
Fortunately it looks like real wear on an old finish, but yeah I’m hoping to avoid dinging it any more. I don’t know much about finish work so I’ve been trying to take it easy and slow. The 400 grit was recommended by Mike Adams (puisheen here on OSG and instagram) who I highly trust on this sort of thing - but he did suggest to not apply pressure at all and be super gentle and use wide strokes. I’ll post a picture when I get home so ou can see how the sanding has gone. The finish seems to have unevenly adhered across the body, so it’s sort of hard to get it to peel off with the paint scraper sometimes. Tried the sandpaper in some spots and had luck, but very nervous about sanding through in some spots. It definitely happened right above the neck pocket by the plate. I’ll have to try your suggestion of 1000 wetsanded, but when you say soapy, is that referring to actually using some soap? Gonna try to use the paint knife some more and see if I can scrape it away without damaging the finish. Seems to work a bit better this far. The need to buff it is what was worrying me since it was leaving those scrape marks.

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Re: NGD: 1966 Jag Refin

Post by mgeek » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:53 pm

Yeah just a little washing up liquid.

Only other advice I've got is don't be afraid of REALLY taking your time with this. It's worth getting right, and can definitely be done

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