Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Discussion of vintage Jazzmasters, Jaguars, Bass VIs, Electric XIIs and any other offset-waist instruments.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:52 pm

wooderson wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:45 pm


"won"
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:50 am

(not to beat a dead horse, but the Chandler Austin Special is another offset-waist guitar made after 1980 that I'd call "vintage" at this point)

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Embenny » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:05 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:50 am
(not to beat a dead horse, but the Chandler Austin Special is another offset-waist guitar made after 1980 that I'd call "vintage" at this point)
And the Charvel Surfcaster.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by SignoftheDragon » Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:10 am

Embenny wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:05 am
øøøøøøø wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 10:50 am
(not to beat a dead horse, but the Chandler Austin Special is another offset-waist guitar made after 1980 that I'd call "vintage" at this point)
And the Charvel Surfcaster.
DING DING DING! (Even though it's just hitting 30 years old)

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Embenny » Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:05 pm

SignoftheDragon wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:10 am
DING DING DING! (Even though it's just hitting 30 years old)
Yeah, but keep in mind that the 1962 Stratocaster was only 23 years old when it was chosen to be part of the American Vintage Reissue line. I've got an '86 model that is much older now than the originals were upon its construction!
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Jaguar018 » Thu Mar 30, 2023 7:25 am

I find these sorts of conversations are more about realizing how we and this website are all getting older. The new guitar that YOU bought might be considered vintage. If YOUR ass was a guitar it would be vintage. That stuff used to just be joking about boomers, but now it can be you as well. The music that once represented youth and rebellion is now full of retirees, nostalgia tours, and age-related deaths.

When OSG started the amount of production model offsets and general offset knowledge was next to nothing. That has changed quite a bit.

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu Mar 30, 2023 8:31 am

Totally.

I was talking with a friend the other day who was looking long and hard for the *exact* cheap Series 10 bolt-on Les Paul copy he had in high school.

I have another friend who went through a phase of buying multiple Hondo II Professionals bc that was his first guitar.

I’m not necessarily proud of it, but TBH if I ran across the exact Epiphone S600 I started on I can’t promise I wouldn’t lay down 300 bucks on it

There’s literally no difference between that and grown people in the 90s who wanted the Silvertone or Kay they had as kids.

Buying a guitar you either had or wanted as a teenager is a rite of passage into middle age

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Maggieo » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:05 am

Embenny wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 12:05 pm
SignoftheDragon wrote:
Tue Mar 28, 2023 11:10 am
DING DING DING! (Even though it's just hitting 30 years old)
Yeah, but keep in mind that the 1962 Stratocaster was only 23 years old when it was chosen to be part of the American Vintage Reissue line. I've got an '86 model that is much older now than the originals were upon its construction!
The original Fullerton RIs were released in 1981, making my 40-year-old example twice as old as the "old" guitar it purported to mirror.

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Skippy And Scooter, January, 2010 by Maggie Osterberg, on Flickr

If you go with most US states' criteria for "antique automobiles," it averages between 20-25 ears and older to qualify. I think antique is more useful as its a term used in curation and as a term of legal standing.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Embenny » Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:21 am

Maggieo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:05 am
You're totally right, I forgot about the Fullterton reissues. I was thinking of the Corona line starting in '85.

Though, if I recall correctly, I don't think they used the term "vintage" in the official model name until the mid-late 80s. I think they officially started as "American Reissue" or something like that.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:34 pm

Aaaaand… Tokai were making impressively-accurate ‘50s-style strats before Fender even thought about it.

When the first ST-80 Springy Sound rolled out, Fender strats still had cast zinc saddles, bullet truss rods and neck pockets you could stick two credit cards in.

I *think* it was ‘78 or ‘79, so obviously there was some appetite for the old-style Fenders even that early

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by wooderson » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:33 pm

Maggieo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:05 am
I think antique is more useful as its a term used in curation and as a term of legal standing.
I assume that "vintage" became the market's term of art specifically because the old guitars they wanted to sell didn't qualify as antiques. (In the US, I think the legal guideline for antique in terms of import/export and advertising is still 100 years.)

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Maggieo » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:30 am

Embenny wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:21 am
Maggieo wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 10:05 am
You're totally right, I forgot about the Fullterton reissues. I was thinking of the Corona line starting in '85.

Though, if I recall correctly, I don't think they used the term "vintage" in the official model name until the mid-late 80s. I think they officially started as "American Reissue" or something like that.
They were: 52RI Telecaster, 57RI Stratocaster, and 62'RI Stratocaster. Just "reissue." There was no such thing as an offshore Fender at that time.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Maggieo » Fri Mar 31, 2023 9:31 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Thu Mar 30, 2023 12:34 pm
Aaaaand… Tokai were making impressively-accurate ‘50s-style strats before Fender even thought about it.

When the first ST-80 Springy Sound rolled out, Fender strats still had cast zinc saddles, bullet truss rods and neck pockets you could stick two credit cards in.

I *think* it was ‘78 or ‘79, so obviously there was some appetite for the old-style Fenders even that early
And those are fantastic guitars! :w00t: :-* Same goes for Tokai's and Greco's LP and SG copies, too.
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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by Rob » Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:39 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Mon Mar 27, 2023 4:27 pm
Another interesting number (that conveniently doubles as a sobering reminder of the passage of time): A '94 Jag-Stang is now two years older than a '79 Jazzmaster would've been the year this forum was founded.
I'm in the camp that believes that the actual passage of time has very little (if anything) to do with it.

My parents are boomers, and grew up in a prosperous new age of television, film, automobiles, music, and disposable income to enjoy all of it. The world revolved around them, every company's marketing efforts were aimed at them, and they were the first generation that could really afford to care about being cool.

Even the word "cool" came into its own during the boomer youth of the 50s and 60s, killing off swell predecessors and outliving groovy/phat descendants. It's still the most popular English slang in history, and we're still saying it.

As Larry and several others have mentioned previously and repeatedly throughout this thread, boomers consumed the stuff they thought was cool -- they lusted after the guitars their musical heroes were playing, the cars their Hollywood heroes were driving, etc. Those guitars and those cars were cool, and they still are.

Subsequent generations came along, but "cool" was already largely established, defined, and continues to be maintained. Sure, each generation has a scene or two that does something new, makes its mark, and can promote something new and exciting into the pantheon of "cool." Take the vintage synth market, which was previously somewhere between esoteric and altogether-dead when my mind was blown by my first ARP Odyssey.

But here we are, still chasing those 60s Fenders. Cobain was my first real guitar/rock hero, but I don't think of the Jag-Stang he played a few times in '94. I think of the blue Compstang, or the Jaguar that was built before he was even born, or the old Moserites or Hi-Fliers.

And that's not to say Jag-Stangs aren't cool. But that is to say why the people who were laughing at the idea of a '94 Jag-Stang being a "vintage Fender" when this forum was created are probably are still laughing today, and will likely still be laughing in the future. Some definitions (like "offset," perhaps) are dynamic and have some wiggle room about what is or isn't. But for definitions like "vintage Fender," I think we're stuck with what we were given.

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Re: Is "vintage = pre-1980" still a useful frame?

Post by øøøøøøø » Fri Mar 31, 2023 3:23 pm

Rob wrote:
Fri Mar 31, 2023 1:39 pm

Even the word "cool" came into its own during the boomer youth of the 50s and 60s, killing off swell predecessors and outliving groovy/phat descendants. It's still the most popular English slang in history, and we're still saying it.
Maybe in the suburbs.

Lester Young introduced the word “cool” (and a lot of other modern slang) in the 1930s (maybe before).

He was perhaps the single most influential pop culture personality in US history (if the criteria include longevity of influence)

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