Advice for Building a Mismatched Studio Drum Kit

[seenoevil II]

Hey all.

Obviously this is a guitar forum, but other forums are weird and foreign to me and so are drummers, so I thought I'd ask here first.

Maybe I can make this into a fun thought experiment for you in the same vein as "gear minimalism", then I can glean good advice from those who know more than me.

Background (totally skippable):

So, after about 8 years of trying to do things with electronic drums- either home made analog synth drums or cheesy found PCM sounds, I think for a new project I want the real article again. I recorded a song in 2021 using a floor tom, a muffled snare and a stamped hi-hat, and it was just...better. It was so much easier to work with in the mix. I didn't need to EQ anything to death, the subs were plentiful as was the snare punch, the hats were crispy.

I spend so much time while mixing, just getting whatever sample set I've concocted to just function. And aesthetically, it never really worked with the sound I was after because I was trying to get them to sound and behave like real drums which totally defeated the purpose of this fun gimmick I was trying. Live and learn I guess.

However, last year, short of space and on a noise budget, I sold my drum kit. It wasn't anything special. An entry level Pearl 5 piece and a motley assortment of broken hardware and crack cymbals. So, I starting over from absolute scratch.

Parameters:

Minimalist: Really, it comes down to the big 4. Something that's a snare, a kick, and a hi hat, and a ride/crash. Big drum, little drum. Big cymbal, little cymbal.

Next on the list are the toms. I like lower, closer pitched toms. The most I'd ever have is two, and I could likely do with just one. Just a third color for accents in the beat.

Relatively Quiet: I'm never ever going to play the opening to Hero by Foo Fighters. In fact, I'll never play a Dave Grohl beat of any kind. This is a studio set for recording that will never have to compete with other instrumentation. Small kicks are on the table.

Relatively Small: Still have that space budget.

Tone/Sound: This is gonna be indie-rock. It's either gonna be janky room mic sound, or dynamic up-the-ass deadened close mic sound (or both). There's gonna be a DIY scrappiness to whatever I record with this set. This will never need to sound immaculate or like a pop-punk record. It just needs to be "the drums" on an indie rock, freak folk, alt country, art rock type song.

Money Budget: is tight. Sub $1000. Hopefully less. And that's for everything. The shells, and the hardware, and the pedals and the cymbals. The whole deal. I understand that you often get what you pay for, and maybe I simply lack the aural training to really hear what is and isn't there with any particular percussion piece. I also know that drums get absolutely mangled in mixing and the same snare can be made to be at home in 80's mega pop, techno, pop punk simply through EQ and compression.

What I'm hoping for from this:

I understand that the world of percussion is enormously complicated probably with even more variables to tone than guitar. This is where my drum knowledge falls flat (and where you hopefully come in). Maple, birch, acrylic? No idea. 1-ply, 3-ply, 5-ply? Nope. Flanges? nuh-uh. The only thing I sort of remember is heads, and preferring coated Evans for their less "Hot For Teacher" intro sound.

If you want to go whole hog and have a fun time "building" a sub 1k set, please, that would give so much insight.

But I'm especially hoping for two kinds of tips:

1. Shure-57 type tips. Things that are cheap, even brand new. They may be limited in their abilities, but it's broadly believed that they're a totally respectable choice, and frankly, if we got over ourselves, they're all we really need anyway.

2. Vintage Guild Acoustic type tips. Things that are really really good, pretty commonly available (if you wait for one to come up), and confoundingly undervalued compared to other similar things.

A note about mixing and matching- Like I said, this will be a studio kit that's never seen by anyone, and further, I'm not an initiated drum snob. If you think a piccolo snare from a ska kit is the right move, cool. If a steel shelled thrash metal tom would work, I don't care. If you think that the Quest Love kit would work perfect, awesome.

Thanks very much if you chime in here. I'm not expecting this crowd to have too many drum brainiacs, or that any such brainiacs feel like taking the time to respond. I'm kind of hoping to trick you into helping me by making this a fun thought experiment.

[seenoevil II]

And I'm gonna hop on my own post really quick to throw in a couple more questions.

What are good sources for deals on loose pieces?
Are there any super obvious issues a vintage drum can have through there age that would tank the value proposition?
Aside from sturdiness and reliability, is there too much to think about when it comes to hardware. Is functional truly good enough? (the obvious exception being the kick pedal and possibly hi hat clutch).

I know this is a big ask and obvious please feel free to ignore this post. I am posting this in conjunction with launching myself down the rabbit hole on YT.

[marqueemoon]

I would go with a 20” kick. Just look for an orphan on Craigslist or local shops. I would go modern with heavy duty spurs. With buying used bigger drums online there’s often serious shipping cost.

I think a Ludwig Acrolite would be a great budget snare. It’s the SM57 of snare drums.

Cymbals I would go 13” hats. Dark sounding is good, but you still want some shimmer when open.

I would go with an 18” crash/ride. The trick is to find something with a well defined stick sound that has some nuance when you crash it.

I would shop in person for the cymbals and ideally set them up in a kit context so you can get a feel for how they balance with each other. Buy used somewhere you can return them within a few days. What your ears hear and what mics hear can be pretty different with cymbals.

I would not go too cheap on the kick pedal or hi hat stand. You can probably skimp a little on the cymbal and snare stands.

Also, while not not kit-related my unsolicited advice is if you haven’t done so already work on having a stash of hand percussion stuff. Stuff like a struck tamborine layered with a snare or the right shaker can add so much. Also great with programmed drums.

[marqueemoon]

Oh, and I would go with a 16” floor tom.

I feel like a 14” floor isn’t quite convincingly rock n’ roll when tuned low. That’s been my experience with my own kit anyway.

Where I tend to dislike the sound of clear heads is on rack toms. If a 16” floor would be the only tom I could go either way.

[seenoevil II]

Hey Thanks! Lotta good stuff here.

So Acrolites seem really cool. I wonder why they stopped making them. They seem to have the steel Supralite line as their student line now. Of course, they're a whole rabbit hole themselves. 60's best, 70's better, 80's least good, is the general rule I've gleaned so far. And $200 seems like a good deal on one.

I agree about the crash/ride situation. Thanks for the size reck. That's whole world, cymbals. My general preference is for very dry, sticky rides (like a Steve West Pavement sound), so finding a cymbal that can ape that and still bloom into a bigger sound when struck more broadly might be tough. I agree that going to the shop might be the only way here (god help me). Cymbals, I might buy new as you inherit any possible stress fractures that might open up when you buy pre owned (I'd love to know if I was wrong on that point, though).

The tom situation is tough. I broadly agree with your assessment on size. 16" does feel like the minimum for a convincing floor tom. If the floor tom's only job is to be a lower tom within a fill, then you can get away with smaller. However, if you want you use the floor tom to keep the beat on the right hand instead of cymbal for the ooga-booga beat, then you need to move more air.

I mean, Ideally, a 4 piece with a crash and ride is the set up for me if I was having a kit to have fun with. But, I'm trying to get this done on a tight space and money budget.

[marqueemoon]

Hey Thanks! Lotta good stuff here.

So Acrolites seem really cool. I wonder why they stopped making them. They seem to have the steel Supralite line as their student line now. Of course, they're a whole rabbit hole themselves. 60's best, 70's better, 80's least good, is the general rule I've gleaned so far. And $200 seems like a good deal on one.

I agree about the crash/ride situation. Thanks for the size reck. That's whole world, cymbals. My general preference is for very dry, sticky rides (like a Steve West Pavement sound), so finding a cymbal that can ape that and still bloom into a bigger sound when struck more broadly might be tough. I agree that going to the shop might be the only way here (god help me). Cymbals, I might buy new as you inherit any possible stress fractures that might open up when you buy pre owned (I'd love to know if I was wrong on that point, though).

The tom situation is tough. I broadly agree with your assessment on size. 16" does feel like the minimum for a convincing floor tom. If the floor tom's only job is to be a lower tom within a fill, then you can get away with smaller. However, if you want you use the floor tom to keep the beat on the right hand instead of cymbal for the ooga-booga beat, then you need to move more air.

I mean, Ideally, a 4 piece with a crash and ride is the set up for me if I was having a kit to have fun with. But, I'm trying to get this done on a tight space and money budget.

I think we have very similar taste in drum sounds!

That is indeed the trick with crash/ride cymbals, and the room, mics, placement, and other factors like if you’re crushing a room mic can make for a pretty big disconnect between how it sounds in the room and the final mixed result.

Bigger hats tend to be darker, but also washier. I think 14” has come to be the most common size as it’s a good balance between the two. I like darker 13” personally. They don’t have as satisfying a “chick” sound and playing them open takes some care, but I prefer the tighter sound, and lower volume. I don’t know about you, but if there’s one thing I usually don’t want more of on a recording it’s hats.

I think I’ve broken one cymbal in decades of being a casual drummer. If you’re staying minimal and don’t have a bunch of cymbals you’re thrashing on I wouldn’t worry about it.

[Dok]

I did this a few years ago, all well within that budget. What I have is:

Yamaha Stage Custom kick, rack, and floor
Acrolite snare
Ludwig Paiste Standard hi-hats - these are from the 60s and very mellow-sounding, not bright at all. They stay out of the way which is how I like all cymbals and hi-hats
Zildjian K 16" Dark Crash - you could go bigger here if you wanted
Zildjian Avedis 20" Medium Ride

You might also look into a Gretsch Catalina kit, those are good and cheap these days

Can't recommend enough the tune-bot drum tuner - it comes with lots of different places to start for specific desired tones for people like me who don't know what they're doing. And you can save what you end up with in the app so you know how to recover your sound when you change heads.

I also have a Snareweight M80 on each of the three drums to cut down on ring. This has the best sound and customizability compared to all the other stuff I tried (moongels, rings, etc), and easy to tilt up and off the drum for full resonance.

Don't even get me started on microphones for the kit

[seenoevil II]

Well, it's a start. Good stick articulation, still blooms really well. Decent price.

I spent my shift at the day job creating a spread sheet of players i like and what snares they use. That and tabulation of Reddit threads where people ask what's their desert island snare.

I had 3 categories for the responses: supraphonic, acrolite and wooden. They were literaaly tied in votes.

I can't afford a supra, so it's acrolite or a well built 14"× 6" maple.

Making friends with the dudes in the drum room.

[redchapterjubilee]

Sabian AA’s are a really good used value right now and I really like them under mic. Good grab there.

Just keep an eye on craigslist and FB marketplace. I see lots of entry level stuff under $500 all the time. Sometimes less. Ludwig Accent, Gretsch Catalina Maple, Pacific, Yamaha, etc. heads and tuning matter more, and that they haven’t been left in a barn for years at a time. Acrolites used to be the cheap secret of the drum world but that is no longer the case. Hard to find under $100 now, sometimes hard to find under $200. I’d look for 80s Yamaha. I found a 10-lug 6.5 deep super sensitive steel drum that has surprised me how easy it is to tune and how well it speaks under mics. But word is getting out on those as well as the 70s Pearl snares and the 80s Tama steel drums. My best vintage drum value recommendation is still 80s Tama Superstars. With patience one can still find a shell pack well below $1000 and those drums are bulletproof.

Cheap dynamic mics with good placement will do you fine at first too. Lots of trial and error there before you learn the room you record in and what works best.

[seenoevil II]

I gave myself the day today to figure out snares and order one. ... I don't wanna wait...for my life to be over..ahem, or for the perfect deal to come up on a used snare.

I'm in the rabbit hole, guys. There're so many YouTube videos, so many forum posts, so many reddit threads.

My conclusions are pretty unsurprising though. Optimal is a 6" Acrolite, Tama Starphonic, or Pearl Sensitone. Trouble is that they're all a little more than I'd like to pay. Steel snares are cool and cheaper. But they have that ring to them that I really don't care for and would spend time getting rid of in the mix. I'm trying to get things sounding as good as possible on the front end. Maple and other woods are cool, but they have some mid range weirdness that I'd have to tame (although, they are quieter which is a plus).

Big thing is though, my god is this boring. Snare demos have to be the boringest thing in the world. Anyway. back at it. 8 hours left to go. Artificial deadlines are your friend.

[redchapterjubilee]

Not all steel drums are bad. 10 lug Japanese steel drums from the late 70s/early 80s are good buys. The Tama Imperialstar and Yamaha 9000’s have thick, seamless shells. Pearl Jupiters are good too. They are HEAVY. like 10+ lbs. not as bad as the 20+ lb. Keplinger or Dunnett drums but also not nearly as pricey. That Yamaha I found a few years ago behaves nicely with a moon gel on a coated vintage emperor batter. But the cheapies that came with Pearl Exports or other thin shell imports like CB700 or Masson, etc. those are not good at all.

Dunno if they are still bargains but the Pearl Chad Smith drum is a fine neutral drum. It’s steel but it’s got a thicker shell. I’ve had good results with one to tape.

[Dok]

Steel snares are cool and cheaper. But they have that ring to them that I really don't care for and would spend time getting rid of in the mix. I'm trying to get things sounding as good as possible on the front end.

I also have a Snareweight M80 on each of the three drums to cut down on ring. This has the best sound and customizability compared to all the other stuff I tried (moongels, rings, etc), and easy to tilt up and off the drum for full resonance.

I honestly fought my wood snare (a nice Ludwig Pioneer) for YEARS trying to get a good sound out of it, and I blamed everything else but the shell. I really don't think you can go wrong with an Acrolite or similar and an M80 if they fit your budget. I spent a couple weeks comparing mine side-by-side with a friend's Black Beauty and while the BB had a little more heft and dimension to it, it wasn't 5-6x more. I really wish someone had just told me to pony up for the Acro and be done with it sooner, I'd have saved a lot of time and money.

[seenoevil II]

[marqueemoon]

I really wish someone had just told me to pony up for the Acro and be done with it sooner, I'd have saved a lot of time and money.

I play in two projects with a drummer who uses one. We’ve made numerous recordings with it.

It does the thing of sounding like a snare drum.

[seenoevil II]

Anyone know any good jokes? Because that's all I could accompany right now. Next piece added!


Bearing surface looked preeeeetty clean. Rim isn't warped. Head spins freely on shell. Snare wires all present and accounted for. I think I did ok. Sub $200.