Any audiophiles here?

All instruments that aren't guitars (or bass guitars).
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MattK
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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by MattK » Sun Sep 04, 2022 3:28 pm

Brilliant job on the Klipsches! I'm a bit of an audio nut as well, but I think I have reached a lasting setup (i.e. my hearing will degrade from here on so upgrades are pointless).
Image
Pro-ject P1.2 with acrylic platter
Marantz 2285B receiver (1979, made in Japan, recapped myself)
Airport Express for AirPlay
Mac Mini with 2TB drive, lossless rips of large CD collection plus Bandcamp digital purchases, in these days of ridiculous shipping costs, feeding
Vincent DAC-1 (32 bit 96kHz optical, Burr-Browns, WIMA caps, toroidal transformer etc etc)
Rotel RCD-971 (wonderful Burr-Brown DACs)
Nakamichi BX-150 I got cheap but had to change the belts, ugh
Speakers are VAF, an Australian hifi brand sold as self-assembly, with minimal crossovers due to the physical filtering on the drivers. They sound just wonderful: neutral and unobtrusive.
It's pretty much flawless, I can access the library over the network or using my phone, iPad etc, the only fly in the ointment is that the old switches in the Marantz periodically cut out one channel and need to be jiggled, drives me insane but they are almost impossible to access and clean (even for someone unafraid of taking it apart).

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MC5tooge
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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by MC5tooge » Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:22 am

Lost In Autumn wrote:
Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:02 pm
Back in high school, the Sisters Of Mercy and the Mission were my bands, I had over 130 Sisters records and nearly as many Mission records... My partner has made it clear that I'm not to do that again and she's not wrong.
LOL... I was pretty obsessive about the Mission too. Sisters less so as I was a bit too young to catch them at the top of their game. I have friends who've seen the Mission well over 100 times. Some of them probably up to 200 by now. I think I'm up to about 75.
Discogs says I have 119 Mish/Hussey records, CDs, official tapes and videos - and I've let some go over the years. Only 24 Sisters though (covering every recording they ever released though).

FWIW I have 9 Mission loudspeakers (6 753s, a 75C and 2 751s). Apart from my surround amp, an SACD player and a DAC, all my audio gear is from the 70s, 80s and 90s (mostly Audiolab). But we do have a pretty big house with several rooms that "need" their own stereos.

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sal paradise
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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by sal paradise » Tue Sep 06, 2022 5:31 am

I spent years buying budget 90s gear for not much money & have slowly upgraded certain bits.

The current sound I have is pretty much where I want it. Although I need a decent DAC, but until Spotify start allowing cd quality streaming I’m not too bothered.

90s Rega Planar 2 w/ AT VM95ML cartridge
90s NAD CD player
Bose Soundtouch wireless link
Marantz PM6006 U.K. amp
Monitor Audio silver 300 floorstanders
Audioquest rocket 11 speaker cable

I like to keep it clean
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I have nothing to offer anybody, except my own confusion?

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 am

I probably wouldn't self-identify as an audiophile, but only because that word tends to connote a kind of quasi-mystical, anti-science approach to consumer playback.

Bu I do like audio!

My pleasure listening system is a VPI Scout, Ortofon Blue, a customized Eico ST-70 (that I've thoroughly rebuilt into something massively better-performing than stock) and an absurdly-large pair of JBL 4345s.

Realistically speaking, this system is fun but absolutely senseless in many ways:
  • A 35 WPC tube integrated amp has no business powering JBL 4345s (which should really be bi-amped with lots of very clean, high-headroom solid state power to be their best selves)
  • JBL 4345s have no business in a living room. With bandwidth essentially flat down to 30Hz from massive 18" drivers, they should really be in a studio with significant bass trapping. Also, they're 4-ways(!) and are so large you really need to be about ten feet back from them before the drivers even combine and image properly (and I use the term "imaging" loosely...)
  • The 4345s have gotten kind of valuable, take up enormous space, and are generally a bad fit for a residential listening system
The best-sounding system I have access to is the pair of ATC SCM110ASL, listening from Radar converters in our Northward Acoustics mix room. The room itself is far more important than anything else in terms of why that system sounds so jaw-droppingly good.

Old systems are fun to put together (by the way, the old "bathtub capacitors" in your crossovers are most likely completely-fine! They're hermetically sealed and unlikely to have degraded... you can measure them if you want!)

Single-ended triodes powering efficient horns... all that stuff is satisfying, even if objectively less-capable than contemporary technologies (it's objectively worse in ways that are subjectively satisfying sometimes!)

Even vinyl... I enjoy it for myriad reasons, but even the first track on the best pressing of the best electroplated stamper of the best lacquer cut on the best playback system will have higher noise, more distortion, more time-domain inaccuracies, more crosstalk, and lower bandwidth than a decent digital master.

But it will still be impressively high-fidelity considering the technology, and will be a different experience. It's not dissimilar to the comparison between a really good film print and a really good digital photo. They're not the same, but you'd be hard-pressed to say one is a "worse" experience for the audience.

In the real world we regrettably have to allow that most new vinyl is shit (especially reissues), most old vinyl is damaged, most playback systems aren't the best, and most people can't get two speakers in-phase... much less align a cartridge and set VTF, VTA and anti-skate!

But we still have fun listening, and that's more important.

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DaddyDom » Tue Sep 06, 2022 7:30 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 am
I probably wouldn't self-identify as an audiophile, but only because that word tends to connote a kind of quasi-mystical, anti-science approach to consumer playback.

Bu I do like audio!
I hear you but in it's barest meaning it's someone who loves audio.
When I lived in the UK, I recall calling a musician a 'muso' was a real insult. Where I am now, it's just an abbreviation.
Semantics.
øøøøøøø wrote:
Tue Sep 06, 2022 11:35 am
JBL 4345s have no business in a living room.
That all depends on how you're living! :w00t:
Last edited by DaddyDom on Wed Sep 07, 2022 12:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lost In Autumn
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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:02 am

update on the Klipsch Heresy H700 restomod:

ImageI have everything reassembled, as PWK intended, with a bit more sound insulation added:


Voila! They’re ready to be taken home for testing:

Image

I also made a set of risers for them:

Image

Considering that they were rescued from and nearly ended up back in the trash, I’m pleased at how they’ve turned out. Total expenditure to this point is about $160 for the replacement speakers and paint. 

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Lost In Autumn
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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Wed Sep 07, 2022 5:06 am

Image
First impressions: I’m not likely to report anything that any Klipsch enthusiast doesn’t already know. Phenomenal sensitivity, dynamics and clarity, the imaging is incredible and it even sounds amazing in surround mode. But… everyone knows this is coming… no bottom end, it just falls off when things get low. With my subwoofer turned off, there’s almost nothing there at the bottom end of the spectrum below mid-bass. Treble is nice, but in the range of the human voice, it’s a little harsh, I’d almost describe it as sibilance, but it’s not distortion. Is this a characteristic of the Type C network? I’m just recovering from COVID and my tinnitus is working overtime, so that may be a factor, too. I think I’d appreciate choking the the midrange back a little bit. So far, I’ve listened to Talk Talk’s “Spirit of Eden” LP, David Sylvian’s “Secrets of the Beehive,” and my bass test tracks, Boards of Canada’s “Aquarius” and “Everything You Do is a Balloon”. I also cued up Dark Side of the Moon, Charles Mingus’s “Black Saint and the Sinner Lady,” Henryk Górecki’s “Symphony No. 3” (with Dawn Upshaw), some Steely Dan, a little Slayer and perhaps some Wu Tang Clan, just to cover all of my bases.

setup was a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon run through a Denon AVR-04 in two channel, as my Onkyo TX-SR674 is offline. I’m supplementing with a Mirage FRX-S8 Subwoofer. My gear is old, but apart from the speakers, not old enough to be cool… but Lieutenant Dan the Tripawd Cat approves:

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by øøøøøøø » Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:29 am

The advantage of horns is that they're incredibly efficient (in terms of sound pressure output per unit of amplifier power input).

This efficiency comes due to the manner in which the shape creates a better impedance match between the compression driver and the actual volume of air in the room (or environment, if outside).

However, there's a reason you don't see them as much anymore (now that amplifier power is cheap)--they've also got a couple of disadvantages.

One of these is a very frequency-specific directional characteristic... in plainer terms, they're "beamy," and this beaminess changes with frequency. A horn is subject to sound very different off-axis (even just by a little bit!) than they do on-axis.

Various manufacturers tried different innovations to mitigate this, all of which obscured imaging somewhat. the JBL horns in my 4345s have the 2308 "horn lens" installed, which basically just scatters the output due to diffraction (surely causing all manner of phase-related artifacts in the process).

The famous JBL Paragon simply pointed the horns at a convex wooden panel on the front to disguise the beaming (this was also... better at looking cool than it was at performing!)

Another horn disadvantage is that they can have some fairly sharp, peaky resonances. Any mechanical system can resonate, but horns seem to do this in an especially-harsh way sometimes.

The harshness you perceive could be attributable to either (or both) of these factors, though some horn-based systems can dial these disadvantages out to an impressive degree (the 4345 could hardly be called harsh or beamy... but it does have some other trade-offs, as do most loudspeakers)

As far as your low-end problem, the first question I'd ask would be to make sure the replacement woofers are the exact correct replacement part, including the correct impedance spec. Often manufacturers had the same part with different impedance voice coils for use in different systems. Getting this wrong will cause issues with performance.

Just to verify... these are the drivers that were specified by Klipsch for this system, correct? I only ask because I've seen people stick any old driver of the right size in these vintage systems, and while they will make sound and "work," they won't perform as-designed.

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 11, 2022 12:35 pm

øøøøøøø wrote:
Wed Sep 07, 2022 9:29 am
The advantage of horns is that they're incredibly efficient (in terms of sound pressure output per unit of amplifier power input).

This efficiency comes due to the manner in which the shape creates a better impedance match between the compression driver and the actual volume of air in the room (or environment, if outside).

However, there's a reason you don't see them as much anymore (now that amplifier power is cheap)--they've also got a couple of disadvantages.

One of these is a very frequency-specific directional characteristic... in plainer terms, they're "beamy," and this beaminess changes with frequency. A horn is subject to sound very different off-axis (even just by a little bit!) than they do on-axis.

Various manufacturers tried different innovations to mitigate this, all of which obscured imaging somewhat. the JBL horns in my 4345s have the 2308 "horn lens" installed, which basically just scatters the output due to diffraction (surely causing all manner of phase-related artifacts in the process).

The famous JBL Paragon simply pointed the horns at a convex wooden panel on the front to disguise the beaming (this was also... better at looking cool than it was at performing!)

Another horn disadvantage is that they can have some fairly sharp, peaky resonances. Any mechanical system can resonate, but horns seem to do this in an especially-harsh way sometimes.

The harshness you perceive could be attributable to either (or both) of these factors, though some horn-based systems can dial these disadvantages out to an impressive degree (the 4345 could hardly be called harsh or beamy... but it does have some other trade-offs, as do most loudspeakers)

As far as your low-end problem, the first question I'd ask would be to make sure the replacement woofers are the exact correct replacement part, including the correct impedance spec. Often manufacturers had the same part with different impedance voice coils for use in different systems. Getting this wrong will cause issues with performance.

Just to verify... these are the drivers that were specified by Klipsch for this system, correct? I only ask because I've seen people stick any old driver of the right size in these vintage systems, and while they will make sound and "work," they won't perform as-designed.
The drivers are Klipsch specific drivers, however there is a slight mismatch in the crossover network: the whole package is is from '71, while the woofers are later replacements: they don't entirely fit with the crossover network. That said, upgrading the network, which I plan to do, won't add much to the bass response, but rather, it will attenuate the mids and tweeters a hair to match the woofer. Unfortunately, the lack of bass response is designed into the system, from what I've read. The Heresy line was designed in the late 50's/early 60's as a center channel speaker to go with the legendary Klipschorn, which is a mammoth, appliance sized speaker meant to be installed in the corners of rooms; they had much more low frequency response. as a center speaker, they're mid and treble focused to enhance the stereo spread via a summed mono signal in the center of the spread. somewhere along the line, people started buying them to stand on their own. However, Klipsch maintained the approximately 60 hz rolloff point, partly so the less expensive Heresy didn't compete with the larger, more expensive Cornwall speaker, and partly because Paul Klipsch had specific design objectives for a line of ultra-sensitive speakers. He's quoted as saying that he didn't port or insulate the Heresy, which would have given it more bass, because he "wanted a zero capacity chassis", which, in this case, meant a sealed cabinet to enhance the efficiency of the woofer, squawker and tweeter drivers that he'd spec'ed for the speakers.

Just as many in the offset community have modified parts against the original designs of Leo Fender, much to the howls of the traditionalists, there are similar modifications to the early Klipsch Heresy 1 speakers produced from the mid 60's through the mid 80's that range from improved tweeter horn lens designs, alternate horn drivers & woofers, crossover network mods to match the improved components and improved chassis mods ranging from cabinet bracing, stiffer motor board & back panel construction, insulation and ported cabinets. Over on the Klipsch forums, there are 34 page & 14 page threads detailing, with sonic analysis, modeling and practical trial and error, the development of two variations to the Heresy 1 speaker system, combining elements from the bigger, bassier Cornwall speaker into the Heresy chassis. The author's stated goal was to improve midrange response, however, a noted and welcome side effect was dropping the bass roll-off down to 30 Hz.

Naturally, I couldn't resist and have been amassing parts: an Eminence Delta Pro 12 woofer, another pair of squawkers and tweeters, a couple crossoveer networks a port and a sheet of baltic birch ply and plan to make my own version of this "Super Heresy' or "Baby Cornwall" speaker. I'd originally planned to mod the speakers I had, but after someone had offered me $1600 for the pair, I thought maybe I shouldn't mess with them and instead, I'll start from scratch and build my own cabinets and do all the mods on that, instead. in the mean time, I'll update the crossover network on these speakers to match the woofers, along with replacing the 51 year-old caps in the process and enjoy them as is, with a subwoofer to suplement them.

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by dave19er » Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:16 pm

I’ve always dabbled in the low end of hifi, but COVID prompted a reassessment/updating/overhaul. I’d had my dad’s old Technics SL-3300 turntable stored in the basement, and the kids kept asking if they could listen to records. So I pulled it out and set it up in my library, hooked it up to an old Proton amplifier an uncle had given me. And used some old Bose speakers that I’d had since the mid 90s. It sounded really good! But the Proton up and died after being used heavily after being in retirement for a couple decades, so we swapped to an old Sony receiver my wife had used in college back in the early 90s. Then that also died (the digital processor in that model frequently went south).

That led me to buying a Rega Brio as a replacement. But then we could really hear how lousy the speakers were, so, on a whim, I bought a set of B stock ELACs, which made a WORLD of difference. Night and day, like lifting a blanket off the music.

Then, the older, entry level surround sound Onkyo system we had been using in our living room for TV stopped working - HDMI controller died. I looked into it, and Onkyo had had a recall/replacement running that had ended two months early. Because of course. We didn’t really watch much that required surround sound, and tried a few sound bars, which we didn’t care for. Decided to just go for another 2.1 system in there. I picked up a Marantz PM8006 amp, another set of ELACs, a vintage Marantz CD player, for listening to all my old CDs. I got a nice DAC for running my Apple TV into the all analog Marantz (since everything that had died on my various old amps was related to digital features, I was done with them). Works like a charm and sounds amazing. Different than the Rega system.

I also ended up building a couple raspberry pi music server things, for playing all that music I’d ripped from CDs, downloaded, etc. and use one of them for streaming music from my phone to the Rega system (the Marantz, I just use my Apple TV; my raspberry pi set up is actually more reliable!).

The best thing with all of this is how much more my kids started listening to music. And how much more deliberately. Before, they’d all have their headphones on, listening to different music, not interacting. Now, they’re always putting on records, or streaming music to one of the systems. I often find my oldest, when he’s home from college, sitting in the library, just listening to LPs. No phone, no computer. Just closing his eyes, and ingesting the music. And all of that, along with how much listening to their music has broadened what I’m exposed to, has made the journey and expense really worthwhile.

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DaddyDom » Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:36 pm

dave19er wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:16 pm
The best thing with all of this is how much more my kids started listening to music. And how much more deliberately. Before, they’d all have their headphones on, listening to different music, not interacting. Now, they’re always putting on records, or streaming music to one of the systems. I often find my oldest, when he’s home from college, sitting in the library, just listening to LPs. No phone, no computer. Just closing his eyes, and ingesting the music. And all of that, along with how much listening to their music has broadened what I’m exposed to, has made the journey and expense really worthwhile.
Sounds like the typical journey of many and you've pinpointed why I will never shy away from the word "audiophile".
I love my audio because it brings me close to the performance (however that was rendered).

Your kids are ingesting more music (love that description!) because, whether they know it or not - or even knew it's possible - deeper emotional connections are being made between their hearts/minds and something magical that happened in a studio between some gifted humans who shared real creative synergy.

Records were called records because they stand as a record of something that actually happened. (Yeah, I know, back when it was produced live.)

We can still be witnesses through good audio equipment.
Keep lifting the blankets!

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by dave19er » Sun Sep 11, 2022 4:56 pm

DaddyDom wrote:
Sun Sep 11, 2022 3:36 pm
Your kids are ingesting more music (love that description!) because, whether they know it or not - or even knew it's possible - deeper emotional connections are being made between their hearts/minds and something magical that happened in a studio between some gifted humans who shared real creative synergy.
Yeah! Really great way of saying that! It's actually caused the library to become a de facto music room, and encouraged the kids to play more, because as they're listening to the music, they're all "wait! I want to learn that part!" It had often been a challenge to get them to play music, even though all of them are very talented musicians (and especially my oldest son has an insane ear. I've never seen another bass player just pick out, say, John Paul Jones's bass lines. I'm simultaneously proud/jealous, and annoyed he doesn't use that gift more.). It's a challenge, because they'd rather play video games (which I also enjoy) or just dork around on their phones, and when that's happening, music is just background noise. But when they're engaging with it and ingesting it, it compels them to want to pick up an instrument (which I think is super cool).

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by marqueemoon » Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:54 pm

Long shot, but does anyone have any opinions/firsthand experience with the Nelson Pass Amp Camp designs? There are two for sale locally.

I was able to hear a First Watt build at a DIY meet a few years ago and thought it was pretty sweet.

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by sessylU » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:38 am

I have a decent set up that sounds great to my ears, and crucially, is probably better than my living room and ears can make use of.

Dual CS 505-1 with a NAD 92 cartridge,* a NAD 3130,** and a pair of Mordaunt Short Pageant II speakers. I recently got a pair of Leak Sandwiches which are okay on their own, but sound brilliant with the MSs. The fill out the bass in a nice, bloomy way. I think the Leaks are getting better, I rotated the woofers and I think they're benefiting from regular exercise.

* - Made by ADC for NAD. It's basically a XLM mkiii from what I can tell
** - Basically a 3020, but beefed up and with more features that never get used.

In other hifi news, I'm trying to put together a setup for a colleague. She recently tried to give away all her old vinyl as she no longer has a system. I have my old Rotel amp and my first ever turntable gathering dust. So I found a pair of Wharfedale Melton speakers on Gumtree and bought those untested, but the foam is hardened and cracked, so they're dud. I'm going to have a go at refoaming them and see if I can get her sorted out.
a total idiot jackass

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Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DaddyDom » Fri Sep 16, 2022 2:46 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Wed Sep 14, 2022 5:54 pm
Long shot, but does anyone have any opinions/firsthand experience with the Nelson Pass Amp Camp designs? There are two for sale locally.

I was able to hear a First Watt build at a DIY meet a few years ago and thought it was pretty sweet.
None, but I think - from what I've read - that NP is a stand-up guy so his generously-shared designs are probably designed with built-in love.

So, if strangers have assembled these, you'd obviously have to be confident they are to the correct design-specs and safe, above all.
Let us know!

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