Any audiophiles here?

All instruments that aren't guitars (or bass guitars).
User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 1:49 pm

Any audiophiles here? This seems like a better place than Misc to discus hi-fi matters... I've just fallen down a rabbit hole into the world of hi-fi, particularly ironic since I spent the first half of the oughts digitizing my collection of +5000 CDs and several hundred LP's, which I promptly dumped when I moved to Philadelphia, from Ann Arbor, MI in 2006. A few years after that, I left most of what was left of my hi-fi, notably a Marantz surround receiver, in my father's barn in Iowa, in 2012, and haven't bothered to retrieve it. I'd been using an old Bose wave radio for music and as sound system for my projector and was relatively pleased with it, until my boss decided to re-do his patio sound system to a Sonos wireless system and gave me an Onkyo SR 674 receiver, a subwoofer and a sextet ofJamo speakers. all in all, entry-level, but a a leap up from the wave radio I'd been using before. I also got a decent Polk speaker that I've enlisted as a center channel speaker and for an investment of absolutely nothing, I have a not terrible home theater system that pairs well with a 1080p projector that throws a 110" high def picture on my living room wall.

Naturally, I'm not one to leave well enough alone... While I've felt a certain amount of smugness towards my friends who've been flaunting their vinyl collections- after all, I've managed to free myself of the yoke of materialism and shed myself of the onerous burden of stuff... The truth is, listening to digital media negates the tactile qualities of putting on a record and dropping the needle, relegating music to background noise, never mind the arguments over the qualities of digital streaming sounds vs analog. I wasn't actively listening to music, so much as using it to fill up space. With that in mind, I began looking at turntables. My last turntable was a Denon DP45 that I've had since the early 90's, when I worked at an independent record store in my home town, which I left to gather dust in my old man's barn in Iowa. I thought about getting another, and promptly looked at the used market and was shocked to see them listed in the ball park of $400-800. Yikes! :wtf: This sent me down another labyrinthine maze of vintage turntables... not wanting one of the ubiquitous, but excellent Technics that were in every living room back in the day, as well as taking the majority of Craigslist, Offerup and FB Marketplace listings, I stated checking out more obscure vintage German and Japanese offerings from the likes of Dual, Thorens, Phillips, Kenwood, Pioneer, Denon, Rotel and the likes; not the silvery plastic, modernist looking decks, mind you, but the ones with wood plinths, like our parents had in the 60's & 70's. Much of these were either in dubious condition or had severely inflated prices. :fp: I found a Phillips 312 on craigslist that hit almost all of the buttons for me:
Image
The price wasn't exorbitant, it was a handsome deck and I was all ready to pull the trigger when something entirely different caught my eye, a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon that had a recently replaced Ortophon Red cartridge that was listed for $150. I polled my audiophile friends, red reviews and decided that a 4 year-old entry level audiophile deck with an almost new cartridge was a better deal than a nearly 50 year old table with an unknown stylus and any number of problems that could emerge. I made a detour on my way home from work to pick it up and after not buying any physical media in 16 years and despite my partner's admonitions against becoming a record collector, I've now got a Discogs account and have become the old guy digging the crates at my neighborhood record shop. Yay!
Image

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:14 pm

maybe it's just confirmation bias, but I swear this deck sounds better than my old Denon, which was no slouch in the audiophile department. Idefinietly don't hear the hiss and pops I recall from back in the day and the sound is warmer and more articulate, particularly with acoustic instruments and more ambient records. Remember when I said I'd left most of my gear in my father's barn? one thing that I'd held onto in Philly, was a pair of Klipsch Heresy speakers that I'd picked out of the trash, sometime in the late 00's/early teens. I don't entirely remember how I came across them or how I still have them- it seems I gave them to a buddy who decided he didn't want them and gave them back to me and they've been kicking around in my unheated carriage house in philly for the better part of the past decade. one look at them and you can see why they were unwanted:
Image

They've seen better days, for sure. In fact, every time I had to move them, I considered putting them back on the curb.However, my dallying into the world vintage audio led me to look up what I had, something I'd never really bothered to do. I knew Klipsch Heritage speakers were well regarded, but until I googled them, I had no freaking idea. it seems that my Heresy H700's sold for the 1971 adjusted for inflation equivalent of about $1500 and while the Decorator series that I have only average around $400-700 in good condition, the subsequent Heresy I, which have the same internals as mine can go for $800-1500 and the contemporary Heresy IV sell for $3200 and up. :o so that got me thinking... maybe I could fix them up a little and have them as the centerpiece of my new hi-fi system? since I had zero invested, it seems worth a shot and at the very least, if they didn't work out, I could sell the tweeters and squawkers for a pretty penny! :whistle:

so first things first, I had to take them apart to improve the state of the cabinets. The tweeters had a bit of cadmium oxide on the drivers, but seemed fine otherwise:
Image
they cleaned up relatively well:
Image
The squawkers seemed to be in good shape:
Image
and while the woofer cones were ripped, the crossover network seemed clean, although those 51 year-old oil-in-paper resistors have likely degraded out of spec.
Image

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:21 pm

The cabinets, however, were throroughly shagged:
Image
Image
Image
however, after sanding them to 220 grit, they started to look better!
Image
next,, I filled the myriad scratches, gouges, dents dings with Bondo, sanded it to 320 grit and prepped them for primer, applying sanding sealer and grain filler.
Image

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:34 pm

after applying primer, I noticed even more flaws in the surface, so I got out the spot putty and sanded them again:
Image
then sprayed a couple coats of alkyd enamel:
Image
they got a total of six coats and it's currently curing:
Image
the surface isn't perfect, but considering where they began, it's pretty good.
Image
Image

I have a pair of NOS replacement woofers arriving on tuesday; I plan to reassemble everything tuesday afternoon, then bring them home to try them out. After that, I'll take the crossover networks out to rebuild them and upgrade them to current spec. the 51 year old capacitors are likely not up to the spec they were designed for and the current configuration was optimized for 16 ohm woofers, while the ones I have and the ones I'll be receiving are 8 ohm, so the capacitors and possibly the woofer inductor will be reconfigured to match the speaker specifications. I also have a few reversible mods planned to improve the bass response in the lower frequencies, by way of a tuned port and a sturdier back panel, as well as replacing the janky-ass speaker terminals with binding post/banana jack terminals. this should be fun.

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7346
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by marqueemoon » Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:57 pm

Nice. Records are fun and definitely prompt a different kind of listening experience. I particularly like jazz and classical on vinyl.

I don’t buy many records these days. If a friend puts out one I’ll buy it though.

I went down the gear rabbit hole for a while, but shit gets expensive in a hurry.

My living room system is a Rega P1, Rega Brio 3 integrated, an Arcam CD player I bought at a yard sale, and some Yorkville YSM-2 monitors.

Good DACs have gotten dirt cheap. With high resolution files it’s amazing the kind of sound quality you can get for a modest amount of money.

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:02 pm

yeah, I've found that it's a more intentional listening experience. it's really easy to stream stuff and do something else, but putting on a record, I feel like i'm listening more closely.

I have to be careful though, I have a tendency to get obsessive: I get into something and learn everything I can about it, totally immerse myself in it until I get interested in something else. I also was not just a collector, but a completist: if I collected an artist, I had to have everything from them. Back in high school, the Sisters Of Mercy and the Mission were my bands, I had over 130 Sisters records and nearly as many Mission records... My partner has made it clear that I'm not to do that again and she's not wrong. Fortunately, I'm a cheap bastarard and an inveterate scrounger, which should help me if i should go beyond these speakers in the audiophile world... :fp:

I've already found myself looking at vintage 2 channel integrated amps...

User avatar
DeathJag
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 2297
Joined: Wed Aug 08, 2018 11:44 am

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DeathJag » Sat Sep 03, 2022 3:51 pm

Nice work! And nice work space!

User avatar
mediocreplayer
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 1331
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:59 am

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by mediocreplayer » Sun Sep 04, 2022 7:22 am

Amazing work! I took your place in keeping vinyl alive in Ann Arbor. I am not an audiophile, so I just have an Orbit TT with a nice Ortofan cartridge and that's it. I buy records but don't even open them. I treat it as an absolutely meaningless collecting hobby.

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:18 pm

Thanks everyone!

I had some scrap 3/4” mdf in my workshop, so I decided to play around with it and make new backs, so I didn’t have to damage the originals. Also, considering how thin the oem back panels were, they seem like a potential weak link in the cabinet construction; MDF, being both dense, structurally stiff and and not particularly resonant, should in theory, tighten things up a bit, with the rabbeted edges providing a good seal against the back. 

Image

i also cut and shaped a hole to fit a 4” port in the back: 

Image

here’s a panel installed flush on the back of the speaker box:

Image

i wasn’t able to get in the paint booth today, but I’ll scuff-sand the panels and spray a few more coats tomorrow. Tuesday, the K-22-K’s arrive, as well as the speaker terminals, so I’ll begin putting everything together with the stock, type c network to see how they sound, before I upgrade the capacitors. 

User avatar
marqueemoon
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 7346
Joined: Mon Jun 20, 2016 9:37 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by marqueemoon » Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:35 pm

I think these need a sparkle finish. :w00t:

User avatar
DaddyDom
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DaddyDom » Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:28 pm

Yup, over here. Total audiophile, as in, I have a deep love for classic audio and its equipment. STUFF!!
(Most OGSers do though, albeit audio that comes from pickups. Check the pickup conversations out.) :w00t:
I guess we're discussing secondary audio reproduction now, though.

Great thread, and so cool you still have those Klipschs, awesome stashing skills! (Did nobody suggest reconing the main drivers, BTW? Repair, reuse. recycle etc.)

Funny to note that in all my many decades of mixing with musicians, nearly all have really tragic stereos but great instruments. I see my stereo as a musical instrument.
Back in the 80s my bandmate/roommate bought the records and I bought the guitars, amps etc. When I moved to another country I had no music so began slowly by collecting what I now know to be everyone's LP collections who downsized, so thank you from a very grateful custodian.

I started in the small-ads with a Thorens TD165 turntable into an Arcam integrated. I don't even remember the speakers!
Then a cheap Linn Sondek - because no-one wanted them, a used Creek integrated and some very good locally-made Image studio reference speakers. When you hear a turntable that great, you get a glimmer of how greaterer it can sound!

Eventually I could go further and bought a very nice Perreaux integrated amp and matching CD player.
The next change was from standmounts to full-height Image speakers.
By being at our Linn store at the right times, I could even afford some amazing, used upgrades for my LP12 along the way.

Now it gets interesting.

Just a few years back, my uncle died. He had lived with my other uncle since the mid-1950s and they had a listening room, where music was not just filling the space. One was a hobbyist and had constructed a whole routing system between many and various turntables/arms, QUAD amps and home-brew speakers. Each record had an index-card saying which knobs/buttons to push for that recording to be heard at its best. (Only a few more than on a Fender Jaguar :D .)

Long story short, my brother and I inherited the contents of the listening room and now each have matching systems made from what we kept. That was something of a victory because he's a musician/record-collector but had poor gear. With my help, he drank the kool-aid, it changed his audio life forever.

My present system is a twin-arm Garrard 301 (stereo/mono) -> Graham Slee phono stages -> bespoke valve/tube preamp -> QUAD II clones built by my uncle - > Tannoy 10" Monitor Golds.

Apart from swapping cartridges, I think I have at last reached the comfy chair. Maybe ...

Image
Last edited by DaddyDom on Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
DaddyDom
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 183
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2018 7:54 pm

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by DaddyDom » Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:41 pm

Lost In Autumn wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:18 pm
Thanks everyone!

I had some scrap 3/4” mdf in my workshop, so I decided to play around with it and make new backs, so I didn’t have to damage the originals. Also, considering how thin the oem back panels were, they seem like a potential weak link in the cabinet construction; MDF, being both dense, structurally stiff and and not particularly resonant, should in theory, tighten things up a bit, with the rabbeted edges providing a good seal against the back. 
Very nice rebuilding work! You may have already, but I suggest reading up on Klipsch cabinets to see how folks have adapted them over the decades. You do find that however it was done back then, sometimes they got it right. Sometimes better ideas come along.

I would be surprised if MDF was ever used by Klipsch. With some speakers, the quality, thinness of the wood and sealing/looseness of the joins is actually a part of the design, however counterintuitive that may seem. With some, like LS3/5a, necessary resonances depend on the type of wood used and how many ply.

Was the rear port part of Klipsch's design? If not, you run the risk of compromising "the way things should be" but you possibly know that already. 8)

If you like the Klipsch sound when they're done (and painted sparkly), you could always build yourself some end-game cabinets. Heaps of plans online.
DD

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:08 pm

marqueemoon wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:35 pm
I think these need a sparkle finish. :w00t:
I contemplated that, but it’s also extremely labor intensive; I’m trying to do this for as little investment as possible and doing the work between downtime between sessions on my backlog of guitar bodies. If my low investment refurbishment yields positive results, I may upgrade them further.

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:20 pm

DaddyDom wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:41 pm
Lost In Autumn wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:18 pm
Thanks everyone!

I had some scrap 3/4” mdf in my workshop, so I decided to play around with it and make new backs, so I didn’t have to damage the originals. Also, considering how thin the oem back panels were, they seem like a potential weak link in the cabinet construction; MDF, being both dense, structurally stiff and and not particularly resonant, should in theory, tighten things up a bit, with the rabbeted edges providing a good seal against the back. 
Very nice rebuilding work! You may have already, but I suggest reading up on Klipsch cabinets to see how folks have adapted them over the decades. You do find that however it was done back then, sometimes they got it right. Sometimes better ideas come along.

I would be surprised if MDF was ever used by Klipsch. With some speakers, the quality, thinness of the wood and sealing/looseness of the joins is actually a part of the design, however counterintuitive that may seem. With some, like LS3/5a, necessary resonances depend on the type of wood used and how many ply.

Was the rear port part of Klipsch's design? If not, you run the risk of compromising "the way things should be" but you possibly know that already. 8)

If you like the Klipsch sound when they're done (and painted sparkly), you could always build yourself some end-game cabinets. Heaps of plans online.
DD
I’ve been immersed in the Klipsch forum for the past week or so, soaking up everything I can find about them. They’re a conservative lot over there and quite traditional minded. However, in following the evolution of the Heresy line, (the current evolution, Heresy IV have a port), as well as a number of popular, but not necessarily approved mods, I’ve got a direction sorted, based on one members mod called the “baby Cornwall“ that combines a Cornwall derived crossover network & port with an aftermarket tweeter and large magnet neodymium woofers. I’m not going all the way there, but in the spirit of adventure and experimentation, I want to see if I can adapt a few of those mods to yield better bass response with what I’ve got and gradually move towards that package as a goal.

As for my speakers, I contemplated reconing them, but found a pair for less than the cost of reconing one of them. At some point, I’ll recone the originals and perhaps build another, nicer cabinets with nice veneer, but for the time being, I want to get these working properly.

User avatar
Lost In Autumn
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 886
Joined: Sun Jul 05, 2020 3:01 am
Location: Philadelphia
Contact:

Re: Any audiophiles here?

Post by Lost In Autumn » Sun Sep 04, 2022 2:21 pm

DaddyDom wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 1:41 pm
Lost In Autumn wrote:
Sun Sep 04, 2022 12:18 pm
Thanks everyone!

I had some scrap 3/4” mdf in my workshop, so I decided to play around with it and make new backs, so I didn’t have to damage the originals. Also, considering how thin the oem back panels were, they seem like a potential weak link in the cabinet construction; MDF, being both dense, structurally stiff and and not particularly resonant, should in theory, tighten things up a bit, with the rabbeted edges providing a good seal against the back. 
Very nice rebuilding work! You may have already, but I suggest reading up on Klipsch cabinets to see how folks have adapted them over the decades. You do find that however it was done back then, sometimes they got it right. Sometimes better ideas come along.

I would be surprised if MDF was ever used by Klipsch. With some speakers, the quality, thinness of the wood and sealing/looseness of the joins is actually a part of the design, however counterintuitive that may seem. With some, like LS3/5a, necessary resonances depend on the type of wood used and how many ply.

Was the rear port part of Klipsch's design? If not, you run the risk of compromising "the way things should be" but you possibly know that already. 8)

If you like the Klipsch sound when they're done (and painted sparkly), you could always build yourself some end-game cabinets. Heaps of plans online.
DD
I’ve been immersed in the Klipsch forum for the past week or so, soaking up everything I can find about them. They’re a conservative lot over there and quite traditional minded. However, in following the evolution of the Heresy line, (the current evolution, Heresy IV have a port), as well as a number of popular, but not necessarily approved mods, I’ve got a direction sorted, based on one members mod called the “baby Cornwall“ that combines a Cornwall derived crossover network & port with an aftermarket tweeter and large magnet neodymium woofers. I’m not going all the way there, but in the spirit of adventure and experimentation, I want to see if I can adapt a few of those mods to yield better bass response with what I’ve got and gradually move towards that package as a goal.

As for my speakers, I contemplated reconing them, but found a pair for less than the cost of reconing one of them. At some point, I’ll recone the originals and perhaps build another, nicer cabinets with nice veneer, but for the time being, I want to get these working properly.

Post Reply