Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Get that song on tape! Errr... disk?
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Re: Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:31 am

johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:13 am
I enjoy the idiosyncrasies of a natural human voice, warts & all. I would rather hear a note sung a few cents off and with emotion than a perfectly in tune one with no soul.
As someone who makes these sorts of sausages regularly... one thing I can say is that many of the common assumptions around this are erroneous.

I've rarely seen pitch correction make a strong vocal into an insipid one. Very often a hair of Melodyne lets me choose an impassioned, rough-edged take over something that was performed perfectly, but carefully.

Just knocking a few of the rougher edges a couple cents closer to center (in an invisible, "I was never there" sort of way) can be transformative. Many records people think are "so loose and rough and human" have probably had this judiciously done.

There's "characterful" pitch and then there's just plain old distractingly flat, and as long as the producer is good and has a "first do no harm" mindset, they can protect what's charming and touch up the things that aren't really working.

On the other hand, someone who's got a dogma about pitch correction is more likely to end up trying harder to sing well as opposed to really going for it (and I'm here to tell you... few things are more detrimental to a good vocal than a singer trying to sing well).

Sometimes (rarely) a singer really has no ego about their pitch, and letting them be a little wild just works. I think Courtney Love was fantastic in this way. Tuning those vocals (even a little) probably would have ruined them.

So it's all 1000% dependent on the performer, the specific piece of music, the target audience... there's nothing that's true in every situation.

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Re: Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Post by JSett » Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:54 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:31 am
johnnysomersett wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 1:13 am
I enjoy the idiosyncrasies of a natural human voice, warts & all. I would rather hear a note sung a few cents off and with emotion than a perfectly in tune one with no soul.
As someone who makes these sorts of sausages regularly... one thing I can say is that many of the common assumptions around this are erroneous.

I've rarely seen pitch correction make a strong vocal into an insipid one. Very often a hair of Melodyne lets me choose an impassioned, rough-edged take over something that was performed perfectly, but carefully.

Just knocking a few of the rougher edges a couple cents closer to center (in an invisible, "I was never there" sort of way) can be transformative. Many records people think are "so loose and rough and human" have probably had this judiciously done.

There's "characterful" pitch and then there's just plain old distractingly flat, and as long as the producer is good and has a "first do no harm" mindset, they can protect what's charming and touch up the things that aren't really working.

On the other hand, someone who's got a dogma about pitch correction is more likely to end up trying harder to sing well as opposed to really going for it (and I'm here to tell you... few things are more detrimental to a good vocal than a singer trying to sing well).

Sometimes (rarely) a singer really has no ego about their pitch, and letting them be a little wild just works. I think Courtney Love was fantastic in this way. Tuning those vocals (even a little) probably would have ruined them.

So it's all 1000% dependent on the performer, the specific piece of music, the target audience... there's nothing that's true in every situation.
Yeah, I see all those points and take them on board, they make sense. The Courtney Love example is great. There's also a lot of traditional-style Emo bands that the singing is out of tune 99% of the time and that's just the style of the music, and it works.

The "I was never there" attitude is a great mandate.to give oneself. I always prefer an engineer/producer to be as transparent as possible. I love Albini's style but it doesn't suit every band best and I would prefer a little more compression on some of his work. I like Kurt Ballou's 'tone' to the bands he's recorded too but I'm sure he's had to Melodyne a few singers.

I'm certainly not the target audience in fairness. I mostly listen to shouty/angry punk music and any music I listen to that has actual real singing in it tends to be old 60's & 70' rock, funk/soul /RnB/boogie and a smattering of old Jazz.
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Re: Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Post by øøøøøøø » Thu Jan 27, 2022 2:12 am

I worked on a project a couple of years ago that was interesting.

The vocalist was fantastic... pitch, delivery... it was all there. To borrow a racing expression, she was "on rails." Could do no wrong. Finished the track, mixed it, sent it to her... she loved the mix but wanted me to tune the vocal.

It definitely didn't need it, but I'm never one to shoot down an idea without trying it, so I went in and did my usual thing--just made everything super locked, but very naturalistic.

Sent her the V2, and she was still not really feeling it. She couldn't hear the tuning (thank you!). And while that's always kind of my goal, she wanted to hear it. To her, it didn't sound like a pop record unless you could hear audible, aggressive tuning.

So I got the studio to buy an AutoTune license and really went for it. She was happy. And you know what? It sounds good. Appropriate for the style, and the record is what she envisioned and was pushing toward creatively (which is most important).

It did feel kind of sad to mangle a gorgeous vocal, recorded on a gorgeous C12 (one of the best I've ever used) with a fuck ton of AutoTune, but... that's one of those little things you do. Sometimes you have to kill your idols to make the record right, and that keeps it interesting.

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Re: Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Post by mediocreplayer » Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:34 am

Like many here said, it's a tool like any other. It can improve or worsen the final product depending on usage.

Interestingly, I read that kids are growing up with better pitch than previous generations because they sit in the backseat of their parents' car and sing along to perfectly-tuned vocals playing on pop radio. An interesting interaction of technology and evolution.

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Re: Can we discuss pitch correction without arguing?

Post by Dok » Thu Jan 27, 2022 12:25 pm

mediocreplayer wrote:
Thu Jan 27, 2022 10:34 am
Like many here said, it's a tool like any other. It can improve or worsen the final product depending on usage.

Interestingly, I read that kids are growing up with better pitch than previous generations because they sit in the backseat of their parents' car and sing along to perfectly-tuned vocals playing on pop radio. An interesting interaction of technology and evolution.
Some people are even learning to mimic the artifacts of Auto-Tune, which is NUTS when you hear it.
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