Miking guitar amps

[DB]

the best bass sound i ever recorded was when using two different cabs, 4 mics and a direct signal

Man, I bet that did sound really good.  You'd probably have to really know what you're doing as well (unlike me!). 

[mynameisjonas]

nah i didn't really know what i was doing, i just figured the more sound sources i have, the more likely i will find a combination that sounds good. it just so happened that all the sources combined got the best results. who knows, it might have sounded even better with 2 amps, 4 cabs and 8 mics

[HeartfeltDawn]

Experimenting is good. I like the sound i get with a mic dangling from a clothes rack about two metres from my amp in a small bedroom. It's not going to be a huge sound but it's nice and trashy.

[idiotbear]

I tend to put my Samson condenser about 1.5m from my Marshall now, which works the best out of any mic setup I've used so far. It actually sounds like my sound! Never tried miking the AC30 yet - I imagine I'd need a lot more distance from the cabinet, cos that thing THROWS sound.

I've always wanted to try Albini's trick of using TONS of ambient condensers in addition to the main instrument and drum mics. Expensive, but way cool.

My band is probably going to record an EP in the next few months, and I really want to try that approach. I have a buddy who owns about 4 of every mic ever made, so when we go into the studio, I might take about 20 condensers and a mixer in with us and see how that amount of ambient miking works.

[HeartfeltDawn]

I tend to put my Samson condenser about 1.5m from my Marshall now, which works the best out of any mic setup I've used so far. It actually sounds like my sound! Never tried miking the AC30 yet - I imagine I'd need a lot more distance from the cabinet, cos that thing THROWS sound.

I've always wanted to try Albini's trick of using TONS of ambient condensers in addition to the main instrument and drum mics. Expensive, but way cool.

My band is probably going to record an EP in the next few months, and I really want to try that approach. I have a buddy who owns about 4 of every mic ever made, so when we go into the studio, I might take about 20 condensers and a mixer in with us and see how that amount of ambient miking works.

Bernard Butler used to stick a mic behind his AC30 to pick up the rumble that came out the rear. I've not tried it on my AC!5 but it'd be cool to try. Right now I've only got one Shure SM57 and a webcam microphone on hand so I'm a bit strapped for mics

[OffYourFace]

If you guys ever get the chance, use a Royer Ribbon mic about 6-8 inches away.  That was the closest I've gotten to what I heard with my ears.  They're not cheap ($1500+) but you can rent one.  Most decent studios have one or 4 anyway.

[Oyster Boy]

If you are going to use a ribbon mic, for god sake BE CAREFULL!

use a SPL meter to make sure your sound isnt exceeding the mics limit. OTherwise you can damage the ribbon. Also most ribbon mics will be damaged by phantom power, so make sure you check the manual. The royer r112, I know from experiance, actually needs phantom power though.

Most of the guitars on the first Yeah Yeah Yeahs album was recorded with that mic.

If you havce a source that is moving a lot of air around, like a really loud bass cab maybe, one good idea is to angle the mic so it's not facing directly at the signal, to minimize stress on the ribbon.

[Sullivan]

My first couple of goes at recording a guitar actually plugged into an amp have led me to wonder how you guys are placing microphones in this situation.

I started off using an amp with 2x10" speakers but couldn't get a sound I liked out of it .. switched to an amp with 1x10" and found a decent sound pretty quickly with the mic placed a couple of inches from the grille, lined up with the outer edge of the speaker and pointing roughly into the centre of the speaker.

This may not be helped by the cheap condenser mic I'm using but I'm pretty sure my placement wasn't the best either. What do you guys do?

I'll throw in my $.02.

First off, sounds like you're placing the mic off axis. Make sure you're pointing the mic perpendicular to the driver magnet, not at an angle.
Experiment with placement somewhere between the cone center and the outer edge.
I generally have more luck with single driver cabs than 2x12s or 4x12s (12s, 10s, whatever).
Experiment with with your amp settings and level. Find 'your' sound back from tape rather than live in the room.
If you want room ambience, or a 'fuller' sound, put another mic in the room. Walk around while someone is playing and find what you think sounds best. Put the room mic in that sweet spot and go from there.
Don't be afraid of putting the mic close the driver. An SM-57 right at the grille cloth is responsible for some of the best recorded guitar sounds in history. Then again, don't be afraid to experiment.

[Meshuggahnans]

Oysterboy is absolutely correct.  Ribbon mics are very fragile!  Record on a good quality low-watt amp -- e.g. tiny terror.  A lot of people think that bigger watt amps sound better, but the what is deceiving is that sound ..well, sounds.. fuller at higher volume levels than it actually is.  Research the fletcher munson curve for details, oh ambitious ones.  But that is only half of it -- tubes lend their tube-like goodness the hotter they are -- so get a small amp and crank that baby as hot as it can go --- let it warm up for 15 minutes before you actually ever record.

As for mic placement.  It really depends how many tracks you have left in your hands.    Basically, the more you can get the better.  A lot of the professionals these days are layering and layering guitars tracks to get that full bodied sound.  So really experiment, and mic in a lot of places as you can.  Also, take a hint from Jonas -- use a DI box and get the "raw" track too.  I really believe there are some really nice digital amp plugins for DAWS  (i just heard 3 indie kids groan from reading this, but bare with me!) --  you can get some great tones from blending the raw digi-amped signal with your amp signal. 

So, experiment!  But here are some tips to start:

1- I disagree with what some have said about close-miking -- do it with at least one track!
but you are going to want to aim it at the middle of a speaker cone -- and when i say that i mean the middle of the radius, not the direct center.
(      o    x  )
            mic the x is that was the cone.

2- If you have an open-back amp, mic the back of the amp too!  speakers make sounds by vibrating back and forth -- even though there is a lot of sound coming out the front, there is a lot coming out the back too!  don't miss this opportunity to capture some great low-end in your tone!
BE WARNED!!!  When blending mics on opposite sides of an amp you can be asking for a recipe for phase cancellation (for those not in the know, simply its a comb filter caused by wave patterns electronically canceling each other out causing lost signal.)  Don't mirror your close mic, give it some distance and tilt the mix off-axis to the amp.

3 - experiment with miking the room your recording in by giving it some distance.  This can lead to a fuller tone and natural reverb if blended correctly.  I remember seeing radiohead put one of their amps in the bottom of a well and miked the top of it - i'm not saying go to those extremes, but reiterating the point that its worth your time to mic the reflections of your environment.

4 - One of my professors old recording engineer buddies would always mic the HANDLE of the amp.... im guessing he was one of those producers that indulged in some of the darker habbits of the 70s...  But he was right on in his habit of experimenting.  DO THIS!  We live in a digital age and data is cheap.  2 takes consumes just as much 1" tape reel as 20.  Use this to your advantage!


I would go on and on, but this post is already reaching an unreadable length!  But I hope that helps some.

[Oyster Boy]

He's absolutly right. In a studio situation bigger and louder does not always mean better. I've recorded really great sounds with a tiny little vox pathfinder. Granted a good high wattage amp may be a better choice than a crappy little amp, so go with what sounds best.

Experiment. if you dont like something, try moving the mic around. if that doesnt do it for you, try another mic. Try different combinations of mics. I got an amazing guitar sound once with 5 mics. And an equally amazing sound with just 2. Another thing to remember, is that it's better to record too many takes and tracks than it is too ferw. when you get to the point where you have to mix the song, you can always simply not use some of what you recorded.Also in mixing you get the oppertunity to blend things better. You might want to try putting a close mic and a distant mic, and then blending them. Like putting more close than distant for more punch, or vice versa for a more round and full sound.


but one thing to remember when stereo miking is what's called the 3 to 1 rule. if you have a close and distant mic on the same source, The distance between the two mics should be at least 3 time the distance of the close mic from the source. The reason is because of phase cancellation. (for an idea of what things that are badly out of phase sounds like listen to the noisy part at the end of The Great Destroyer from the new NIN album on headphones. at one point they flip the phase and you get this shocking... tickle in your ears. it sounds really unnatural.)


PS: Most of this stuff is straight out of my Audio One class from my first semester I feel smart actually teaching it to others

[OffYourFace]

When I used a Royer Ribbon Mic, I was using an old '62 Fender Brown Princeton (w/ les paul) so it wasn't terribly loud.  I also just used some newer boutique ribbon mic... can't remember what the company name was but it looked like an old RCA 77 DX.  It sounded great!  I was playing thru a '66-67 Fender Pro Reverb w/ my Jazzmaster, mic was about 6 inches from speaker grill in a large iso booth.  I thought the Pro Rev would be too loud for the mic but I wasn't the engineer.  He's pro, he knows what he's doing.

[chrisjedijane]

I was using an old '62 Fender Brown Princeton (w/ les paul)

I'm more of a live sound engineer than a studio guy, and the best clean sound I've ever heard out of any amp was when a guy was using a brownface princeton with a telecaster. It was just beautiful. As it was live sound, I just had an SM57 on it, but it still sounded great.

[fuzzking]

2- If you have an open-back amp, mic the back of the amp too!  speakers make sounds by vibrating back and forth -- even though there is a lot of sound coming out the front, there is a lot coming out the back too!  don't miss this opportunity to capture some great low-end in your tone!
BE WARNED!!!  When blending mics on opposite sides of an amp you can be asking for a recipe for phase cancellation (for those not in the know, simply its a comb filter caused by wave patterns electronically canceling each other out causing lost signal.)  Don't mirror your close mic, give it some distance and tilt the mix off-axis to the amp.

This really can make for some great mighty boom! I always had great results this way with my little Deluxe Reverb.

[idiotbear]

I was considering buying a mixer and a couple of new mics to get a REALLY good guitar sound. Can you guys tell me what you think of this setup?

- SM57, close mic'd at the front
- Samson condenser at the back (angled to avoid phase cancellation - thanks meshuggahnans!)
- another condenser about 2m from the front of the amp


Do you think this will pick up most of what my ears hear? Also, what would a typical balance between the 3 mics look like? I'm thinking the SM57 would be high in the mix, the back mic about two-thirds of the SM57 and the ambient mic a touch lower than that. Does that sound like a good starting point to tweak from?

[planes]

guitar player in my band always records with a sm57 straight to the front.