Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Absolutely, we are finally getting to a stage where entry-level systems are capable of tasks that used to take midrange and high-end stuff.
And the most important part of that, to me, is this new generational shift to lower energy consumption. A specced-out PC now requires as much as a 1200W power supply, while Apple's new top-of-the-line M2 Max is rated at 79W. The M2 Pro looks to be rated at about 40W.
That's a complete paradigm shift. A workplace running 100 computers might reduce its energy consumption by as much as a couple of megawatt-hours per day by switching from high-end desktop PCs to these new Macs. Even an upgrade from 100 relatively efficient Intel iMacs to M2 models could represent a 500 kilowatt-hour reduction per day.
I'm really thrilled that for once, people can upgrade to a faster system and dramatically drop their energy consumption at the same time. PCs have been pushing the envelope by increasing power consumption for many years now, which is not a sustainable trend.
I hope Apple sells a shit-ton of these and attracts more competitors. I can't imagine choosing a Windows-based laptop at this point at all - the battery life alone is just not comparable, and that's before you get to the issue of Windows Modern Standby (which is causing tons of laptops to use up all their battery while allegedly asleep). We need to see ARM processors infiltrate the PC space ASAP.
And the most important part of that, to me, is this new generational shift to lower energy consumption. A specced-out PC now requires as much as a 1200W power supply, while Apple's new top-of-the-line M2 Max is rated at 79W. The M2 Pro looks to be rated at about 40W.
That's a complete paradigm shift. A workplace running 100 computers might reduce its energy consumption by as much as a couple of megawatt-hours per day by switching from high-end desktop PCs to these new Macs. Even an upgrade from 100 relatively efficient Intel iMacs to M2 models could represent a 500 kilowatt-hour reduction per day.
I'm really thrilled that for once, people can upgrade to a faster system and dramatically drop their energy consumption at the same time. PCs have been pushing the envelope by increasing power consumption for many years now, which is not a sustainable trend.
I hope Apple sells a shit-ton of these and attracts more competitors. I can't imagine choosing a Windows-based laptop at this point at all - the battery life alone is just not comparable, and that's before you get to the issue of Windows Modern Standby (which is causing tons of laptops to use up all their battery while allegedly asleep). We need to see ARM processors infiltrate the PC space ASAP.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Larry Mal
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 19662
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
- Location: Saint Louis, MO
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
I was just talking about the Windows standby issues, and I was also talking about how Windows 11 really isn't ready yet in my opinion. I like it OK, but there are broken links throughout it, and when I return to my computer after a couple of days it's basically incapable of working until after a pretty long period of sorting itself out.
I just use the Mac Mini I have here, it's no big deal. Weird to me that Microsoft rolled this out, and even weirder because none of this is new stuff, it's stuff that's been part of Windows forever.
Oh, it was right clicking and selecting "Map network drive" and the link did not open the network drive utility. It is now, I guess they patched it.
But yeah, the reduced power consumption is pretty cool, and like I say the big thing that gets me excited is that it's a quiet computer.
I can't recall the Mac Mini I have here ever making any noise at all.
I just use the Mac Mini I have here, it's no big deal. Weird to me that Microsoft rolled this out, and even weirder because none of this is new stuff, it's stuff that's been part of Windows forever.
Oh, it was right clicking and selecting "Map network drive" and the link did not open the network drive utility. It is now, I guess they patched it.
But yeah, the reduced power consumption is pretty cool, and like I say the big thing that gets me excited is that it's a quiet computer.
I can't recall the Mac Mini I have here ever making any noise at all.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Absolutely, low TDP and quiet computers go hand in hand - less heat generated means less heat needing to be dissipated, which means slower fan speeds and much less noise. That's long been a big draw for Apple over PCs in a studio environment. Gone are the days when you needed an acoustically isolated machine room just to run a computer in a control room.
You can even get a MacBook air with an M1 and no fan at all. It's throttled a bit compares to a mini, but it's truly silent. You could sit it right in a tracking room to record something quiet like a ukulele and there would be no contribution to the noise floor from the computer itself.
But that's what draws me to the Mini, despite having a fan it's still superbly quiet. The Studios seem to struggle with noise a bit more, they've got something like double the TDP in a nearly-identical chassis, so they need to move a lot more air through there and that means higher fan speeds.
And I hear you on Windows 11, I'm still running 10 on my one PC and see no compelling reason to change that. It's been one issue after another with that OS. They did such a good job with 10 that it's really quite perplexing that they'd release something so unpolished next. Everyone seemed happy with 10, they could have taken their sweet time prepping 11 for release, you know?
You can even get a MacBook air with an M1 and no fan at all. It's throttled a bit compares to a mini, but it's truly silent. You could sit it right in a tracking room to record something quiet like a ukulele and there would be no contribution to the noise floor from the computer itself.
But that's what draws me to the Mini, despite having a fan it's still superbly quiet. The Studios seem to struggle with noise a bit more, they've got something like double the TDP in a nearly-identical chassis, so they need to move a lot more air through there and that means higher fan speeds.
And I hear you on Windows 11, I'm still running 10 on my one PC and see no compelling reason to change that. It's been one issue after another with that OS. They did such a good job with 10 that it's really quite perplexing that they'd release something so unpolished next. Everyone seemed happy with 10, they could have taken their sweet time prepping 11 for release, you know?
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Dok
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 pm
- Location: Ojai
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
In 8 or 9 months I've never once been able to get the fan on my M1 Mini to turn on.
Local milk person
- andy_tchp
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8002
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:36 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
I've had a 16" Macbook Pro (M1) for a similar period. I don't think I've ever heard a fan and it's run in clamshell mode as my 'desktop' >90% of the time.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3305
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:21 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Not wanting to hi-jack this thread but wanted to follow up about my previous post and general discussion on the M2 Mac Minis and audio production. I must have jinxed myself earlier in the thread when I bragged about still rocking my 2013 iMac, as it all of a sudden started getting cpu spikes and overloads in Logic, which as a full time musician that primarily records remote drum tracks for a living gets run at least 6 hours a day. I did a friggin DEEP dive today and ended up ordering a M1 Max Mac Studio based on my findings.
I had spec'd out an M2 Pro Mini with the fastest chip, 32GB RAM, and 1TB SSD, which came to $2,200 USD- I was really torn between this and the M1 Max Studio with 64GB and 1TB SSD which comes in at $2,600. Interestingly- there's a Logic Pro benchmark I found on youtube (linked below) comparing the maxed M2 Pro Mini and the M1 Max Studio, and the M1 Max actually performed better (173 tracks of VI's instead of 169):
https://youtu.be/-24_4-pkVwk?t=515
I was also worried that they'd eventually release a new Mac Studio with the M2 Max later this year that would be a significant upgrade- but if you look at the same Logic Pro benchmark using the M2 Max on the new MacBook Pros, it appears to be a marginal upgrade over the M1 Max at best:
https://youtu.be/aJqRDGkKB8Q?t=1110
So given the fact that the Mac Studio takes 64 GB RAM and runs a lot cooler (by all accounts I've read, the fan is next to silent even when running), and the fact that I'm running it multiple hours a day, it made more sense to go with the Mac Studio (64GB RAM 1 TB SSD). It kinda felt like I'd be dropping a ferrari engine in a Honda chassis by going for the maxed out M2 Pro Mini given how much I'll be using it (the M2 temperature readings get quite high so I'd have concerns about longevity too). Just wanted to share my findings as they were relevant to the earlier discussion!
I'll report back after I get the new machine up and running and go through the dreaded system migration
I had spec'd out an M2 Pro Mini with the fastest chip, 32GB RAM, and 1TB SSD, which came to $2,200 USD- I was really torn between this and the M1 Max Studio with 64GB and 1TB SSD which comes in at $2,600. Interestingly- there's a Logic Pro benchmark I found on youtube (linked below) comparing the maxed M2 Pro Mini and the M1 Max Studio, and the M1 Max actually performed better (173 tracks of VI's instead of 169):
https://youtu.be/-24_4-pkVwk?t=515
I was also worried that they'd eventually release a new Mac Studio with the M2 Max later this year that would be a significant upgrade- but if you look at the same Logic Pro benchmark using the M2 Max on the new MacBook Pros, it appears to be a marginal upgrade over the M1 Max at best:
https://youtu.be/aJqRDGkKB8Q?t=1110
So given the fact that the Mac Studio takes 64 GB RAM and runs a lot cooler (by all accounts I've read, the fan is next to silent even when running), and the fact that I'm running it multiple hours a day, it made more sense to go with the Mac Studio (64GB RAM 1 TB SSD). It kinda felt like I'd be dropping a ferrari engine in a Honda chassis by going for the maxed out M2 Pro Mini given how much I'll be using it (the M2 temperature readings get quite high so I'd have concerns about longevity too). Just wanted to share my findings as they were relevant to the earlier discussion!
I'll report back after I get the new machine up and running and go through the dreaded system migration
Hello, my name is Nate, and I'm a bend-aholic
- Dok
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 pm
- Location: Ojai
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
It's not so bad. Migration Assistant is pretty good these days. I recommend deselecting *all* options except for your user account, making sure not to transfer your Applications folder. You want clean installs for all that stuff. And of course make sure to install Rosetta 2 before installing any apps, and you should be in great shape.
Local milk person
- Larry Mal
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 19662
- Joined: Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:25 pm
- Location: Saint Louis, MO
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Now, I had read that the Studios were loud, so that's why I went with the M2 Pro Mini. Keep us posted on that I guess, too late for me but it would be good to know.
Back in those days, everyone knew that if you were talking about Destiny's Child, you were talking about Beyonce, LaTavia, LeToya, and Larry.
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3305
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:21 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Great to know- it's been 10 years since I upgraded, in the past I've always done totally clean installs, I.E. manually moving what I need over to just clean house of any random files that have accumulated over the years. Are the days of that being necessary overr? Cause that'd be awesome!Dok wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am
It's not so bad. Migration Assistant is pretty good these days. I recommend deselecting *all* options except for your user account, making sure not to transfer your Applications folder. You want clean installs for all that stuff. And of course make sure to install Rosetta 2 before installing any apps, and you should be in great shape.
From what I came across, it takes a shitload to actually get the mini's fan to turn on (like over 100 degrees celsius!), it would take something like a long rendering session- so shouldn't be an issue for audio production- my concern was that I might get to that point after I'd been using it for 8+ hours
Hello, my name is Nate, and I'm a bend-aholic
- Dok
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 pm
- Location: Ojai
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
I'd say so, as long as you don't select anything else when you use the assistant. That's how I've been doing it at work for years for all of our users and it works pretty well. Nice to have all your stuff where you left it. Congrats on the new Mac, I think you'll like it!NBarnes21 wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 12:37 pmGreat to know- it's been 10 years since I upgraded, in the past I've always done totally clean installs, I.E. manually moving what I need over to just clean house of any random files that have accumulated over the years. Are the days of that being necessary overr? Cause that'd be awesome!Dok wrote: ↑Tue Feb 14, 2023 11:15 am
It's not so bad. Migration Assistant is pretty good these days. I recommend deselecting *all* options except for your user account, making sure not to transfer your Applications folder. You want clean installs for all that stuff. And of course make sure to install Rosetta 2 before installing any apps, and you should be in great shape.
Local milk person
- andy_tchp
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 8002
- Joined: Fri Apr 02, 2010 1:36 am
- Location: Brisbane
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
+1. Time Machine restore actually does what it says on the tin IME.
"I don't know why we asked him to join the band 'cause the rest of us don't like country music all that much; we just like Graham Lee."
David McComb, 1987.
David McComb, 1987.
-
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 3305
- Joined: Wed May 21, 2008 10:21 pm
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
Realized I never followed up on this but I've had my Mac Studio for about a month now. Data migration was a cinch (thanks for the suggestion on only the user files Doc!) and even though I had basically blocked out a week of time in case I needed to troubleshoot things, everything was up and running within a couple days with no real issues. UAD console and my Apollo works great as do all my plugins minus izotope which is not yet ventura compatible I guess. The thing screams, exporting tracks is at least 50% faster than my iMac was and it can handle loads of tracks/virtual instruments/ plugins.
I haven't heard the thing make a sound except for when they ran a hardware diagnostic at the apple store which tests the fan (it is quite loud at full bore but doesn't ever rev up to a remotely audible level when working). Only issue is I'm getting really bad/ inconsistent wifi on it which I am guessing is somehow software related since it passed a hardware diagnostic- so hopefully that gets fixed in an update. For now I've got a 200 foot ethernet cable running all the way from my router to my studio
Was really excited to finally get the latest version of Logic, but much to my chagrin the same annoying bugs I dealt with in the old version still exist on the latest one. Nothing critical- sometimes grouped tracks don't all switch over when you go between playlists ("track alternatives"), and when you abort a recording (command-period) sometimes only one of the grouped tracks stays record enabled (so I'll do another whole take before realizing only the overheads recorded ). Kinda dumb they haven't fixed these in updates but what can ya do. Overall was expecting it to be way more difficult so happy with how it turned out.
Hello, my name is Nate, and I'm a bend-aholic
- Embenny
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 10363
- Joined: Tue May 24, 2016 5:07 am
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
That sucks about the wifi, I'll need to rely on wireless because my studio is above the garage on the opposite side of the house from my modem, and there are no conduits I could use to fish a wire. Hope I don't have that issue by the time I get one.
Glad to hear it's been quiet, that was my main concern compared to the Mini. Thanks for giving the update.
Glad to hear it's been quiet, that was my main concern compared to the Mini. Thanks for giving the update.
The artist formerly known as mbene085.
- Dok
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 2224
- Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2011 10:39 pm
- Location: Ojai
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
My M1 Mini likes the 2.4Ghz channel on our router much better than the 5Ghz one for some reason. Once I figured that out I quit trying to troubleshoot it. I already spend too much time doing that shit at work.
But also 200 feet is a pretty big distance to get a decent wifi signal without a direct line of sight, so if your wifi router is really that far away with obstacles in between that may explain some of the issues you're having.
But also 200 feet is a pretty big distance to get a decent wifi signal without a direct line of sight, so if your wifi router is really that far away with obstacles in between that may explain some of the issues you're having.
Local milk person
- stevejamsecono
- PAT. # 2.972.923
- Posts: 4549
- Joined: Tue Oct 17, 2006 10:55 am
- Location: Brooklyn, NYC
- Contact:
Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?
So bit of a lol finisher to this one ---
My desktop I use for work died dramatically the week I had surgery on my foot last month so in desperation I just ordered a new one with the same specs I'd planned for the Macbook. Fortunately TimeMachine worked like a charm and all my MIDI stuff works great on it, so we're back in business at long last. Maybe stationary for now, but it's still nice to be able to work in a DAW without it crawling to a halt in 5 seconds
My desktop I use for work died dramatically the week I had surgery on my foot last month so in desperation I just ordered a new one with the same specs I'd planned for the Macbook. Fortunately TimeMachine worked like a charm and all my MIDI stuff works great on it, so we're back in business at long last. Maybe stationary for now, but it's still nice to be able to work in a DAW without it crawling to a halt in 5 seconds
And you find out life isn't like that
It's so hard to understand
Why the world is your oyster but your future's a clam
Resident Yamaha Fanboy
COYS
It's so hard to understand
Why the world is your oyster but your future's a clam
Resident Yamaha Fanboy
COYS