Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

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Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by stevejamsecono » Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:15 am

Finally upgrading to a new computer after a long, painful wait. Looking to grab one of the refurbed 14" M1 Macbooks as Apple seems to be blowing them out to make room for M2.

Main question for me is RAM in the age of the Apple silicon chips. 16g of RAM would be double what I'm used to in my old iMac and my current Air, but would it be worth ponying up for 32g just to 'future proof' it for awhile?

I'm mainly just demoing at home in Logic or Ableton in a pretty modest sense (usually less than 16 tracks), and although I'd love to have a machine that can breeze through doing some live full-band recordings (2 guitars, bass, drums, vocalist) when the occasion calls.

Thoughts? Difference in price seems to be about $300 which is.... not great because it's Apple but I can definitely afford it.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:23 am

If you can swing it, I'd do it, because as you say it future proofs it for you.

The M1 computers are good, by the way, I seem to have read that the M2 are 17% faster so it does not seem to be a night and day difference.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by stevejamsecono » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:06 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 6:23 am
If you can swing it, I'd do it, because as you say it future proofs it for you.

The M1 computers are good, by the way, I seem to have read that the M2 are 17% faster so it does not seem to be a night and day difference.
Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. I also work with an orchestral sample library developer that I get some discounts/freebies from, so it'd be nice to be able to run THAT stuff on the rare occasion that I want to without trouble.

And yeah the decision to not go immediately M2 is I feel like all the developers just caught up to M1 so it's likely more stable and I doubt the minute performance differences are going to matter with what I'm going to be doing with it.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Embenny » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:16 am

100% get the extra ram. In terms of system longevity, as a DAW user, you're far more likely to be bottlenecked by RAM than by processor speed in the future. You'll probably get a longer useful lifespan out of it.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Embenny » Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:34 am

stevejamsecono wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 7:06 am
And yeah the decision to not go immediately M2 is I feel like all the developers just caught up to M1 so it's likely more stable and I doubt the minute performance differences are going to matter with what I'm going to be doing with it.
That's not really how it works with CPUs. The reason developers took ages to catch up to M1 is that it has a totally new architecture, ARM vs x86. That meant that every single program had to be fully ported, to prevent the need for a translation layer (Rosetta) and its associated overhead.

M2 and all subsequent AS chips are just upgrades in terms of things like clock speed, cache, and number of cores. It's like saying you're not going to buy an Intel core i7 processor because the i5 just came out a couple of years ago.

The only case where developers would need to "catch up" is where a single program could take advantage of multi-core processing, but wasn't programmed to use more than the number of cores found in the older processor.

But Apple already released versions of the M1 processor that have way more cores than the original chip, and developers all knew that was the plan, so I very much doubt that they've been coding programs in a way that would leave that much performance on the table.

Having said that, it won't likely make any tangible difference to a musician. M1 can already run a dozen plugins per channel across hundreds of channels, so CPU bottlenecks are highly unlikely in all but the most extreme edge cases. 15% more plugins means nothing to you if you never need that number (which virtually nobody does).

The bigger differences will be felt during things like video rendering, where the 35% faster GPU will make a tangible difference to people's workflow. If you're not one of those people, though, M2 holds little advantage.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:48 am

In general terms I have a policy of over-spec’ing a new computer just because it gives me a bit more runway before I’m thoroughly outclassed. I’ve been known to keep a laptop for 8 or 9 years and a desktop for 6 or 7.

But for music recording, we’ve entered an era where there is very little need to think too hard about the capability of the computing hardware

Even the most basic machines now are plenty capable of music production—our very well-equipped SSL mix room runs off a Mac Mini.

Extremely capable machines are now the domain of complex VR rendering, things like that. We simply don’t need things like Mac Pros anymore. The phone in my hand has 3X more RAM than my first Pro Tools rig.

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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:20 am

øøøøøøø wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 8:48 am


Even the most basic machines now are plenty capable of music production—our very well-equipped SSL mix room runs off a Mac Mini.
I am typing this on an M1 Mac Mini I had them buy me at work, I was wondering if I would replace my aging Mac Pro with the Mini. The Mini is the better machine, however, it doesn't have the same flexibility the Pro did regarding things like internal hard drives and such. I am intrigued by the Studio but the price is higher than I want to pay at the moment.

But yeah, I arrange for computers to be delivered to people here, and I don't pay any attention to the specs of them outside of RAM, any processor will handle everything you need to do these days, onboard graphics are great in the vast majority of uses, and so on.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by øøøøøøø » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:22 am

My next machine will likely be a studio.

They look impressive

But that will be overkill most likely

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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:37 am

stevejamsecono wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:15 am
Looking to grab one of the refurbed 14" M1 Macbooks as Apple seems to be blowing them out to make room for M2.

I am setting one of those up for a client right now. I'm on a 2021 machine, M1 Pro.

The keyboard is good again finally. The trackpad is good again finally. The MagSafe power adapter is back again finally.

Try and get one that has that stuff. I am using an older MacBook Pro with what I think was called the "butterfly" keyboard, it's absolutely awful. It also has that Touch Bar at the top of the keyboard, that is also awful.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Embenny » Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:59 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:37 am
stevejamsecono wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 5:15 am
Looking to grab one of the refurbed 14" M1 Macbooks as Apple seems to be blowing them out to make room for M2.

I am setting one of those up for a client right now. I'm on a 2021 machine, M1 Pro.

The keyboard is good again finally. The trackpad is good again finally. The MagSafe power adapter is back again finally.

Try and get one that has that stuff. I am using an older MacBook Pro with what I think was called the "butterfly" keyboard, it's absolutely awful. It also has that Touch Bar at the top of the keyboard, that is also awful.
I have that same MBP. It's going on 5 years old now and has been through a lot of physical abuse, so it's not quite what it used to be. I'm planning on getting a Mini for my new home studio when it's up and running in (fingers crossed) a few months.

I'm holding out for the M2 Mini, though, but not because of the processor. It's more the paucity of I/O on the M1. Two Thunderbolt ports is ridiculous, it makes no sense to produce this tidy little square of a computer and then force you to plug multiple Thunderbolt and USB hubs into each other in order to hook up a couple of displays, a couple of external SSDs, an interface, a MIDI controller, etc.

The M2 should have double that, which means I might get away with a single TB hub, which is reasonable. I'm also looking forward to the new GPU, since I hope to get back to creating YT content. I haven't done that since back in the day when 1080p video was considered upscale and unnecessary for YouTube :D
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Larry Mal » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:17 am

Embenny wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2023 9:59 am


I'm holding out for the M2 Mini, though, but not because of the processor. It's more the paucity of I/O on the M1.

The M2 should have double that, which means I might get away with a single TB hub, which is reasonable.
Apple drives me nuts with that. I didn't know that the new Mini had more ports, then again Apple has been reversing themselves and putting USB-a and HDMI ports back on things.

I mean, everyone uses USB-a.

I delivered a computer to a client in the music department, a nice M1 iMac. Immediately upon putting it out there I realized none of his peripherals would work, he had a Scarlett interface, a keyboard, printer, etc. None of which would interface with his iMac, so from his point of view his new computer offered far less functionality than his old one did.

I got him set up, but it's ridiculous to pay that much and have to immediately pay to have to convert things.

Don't they do any research into what their customers are doing? I like Apple products and deeply dislike the company.

Frankly, if it wasn't for Logic and the fact work provides me with Apple computers, I would be off the platform, even though I prefer the Mac OS to Windows.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Embenny » Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:42 am

For sure, it's one thing to push a standard of the future (Thunderbolt), but it's entirely another thing to intentionally make it difficult for your average customer to use any of their existing peripherals, especially when USB-A is still literally everywhere.

I myself left iPhone for Android when they eliminated headphone jacks. I like to fall asleep to calm instrumental music or an audiobook, but my wife is a light sleeper, so I need to use headphones. I have a couple of pairs of wireless ear buds, but if I set the music to stop playing after half an hour, the damn things will make a periodic loud beep to let me know they're still on, which wakes me up. If I set the music to play continuously, I'll get woken up at some point by an extremely loud computerized voice saying "BATTERY LOW."

Just let me plug in normal fucking headphones, so I don't have an extra battery to manage. And just let me plug in my fucking USB peripherals without a rat's nest of hubs, the computer is fully capable of interfacing with USB devices. There can't possibly be more than a $1 difference in manufacturing cost between a Mini with four USB-A ports and one with none, but instead, the average user has to spend far more for a far less tidy means of connecting even a couple of everyday peripherals.

But damn, is Logic ever great, and the Apple Silicon macs are absurdly power efficient compared to any x86 computer. I'm sure you're into the megawatt-hour range of energy savings over the course of the computer's life cycle, and that's really meaningful to me. All computers need to move in that direction. There are discrete GPUs of equal computing power to the higher end M1 and M2 GPUs that consume 2-5x as much power as the entire Apple system. I wince when I see the TDP numbers on new NVIDIA and AMD cards. Wrong direction.

So, I begrudgingly support Apple despite their bullshit anti-consumer practices. Hopefully that support brings more competitors into the ARM computing space, so I can someday buy something from a slightly less horrible company.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Dok » Tue Jan 31, 2023 2:29 pm

When I bought my M1 Mac Mini I also picked up a 27" Apple Thunderbolt Display for very cheap (like $200). It interfaces perfectly with the Mini (through one Thunderbolt 2 to 3 adaptor), and comes with a variety of ports itself (Thunderbolt, Firewire, USB-A and Ethernet). Between that and the ports on the M1 Mini, I have everything I need hooked up to it without issue or hubs needed (if you're not counting the display as a hub). Two hard drives, a CD drive, and a wired keyboard go into the display, the audio interface goes via the other Thunderbolt port on the Mini, and USB cables for the MIDI controller/synth and iPod go to the other two USB ports on the Mini. If I wanted I could use ethernet to connect my audio interface instead of Thunderbolt but I don't actually need to! And I'm also not even using the HDMI output, either. This still also leaves me with two spare USB-A ports on the wired keyboard.

My eyes aren't really good enough for more resolution than the 2k provided by the Thunderbolt Display, so I don't have any need/desire to upgrade. I agree that the first M1 Mac Mini should have had more ports, but my solution feels elegant enough and only took a little bit of planning, and wasn't super expensive. If anything I think it can speak to the longevity of Apple devices in certain respects - sure, connectivity standards change with time, sometimes quickly, but plenty of devices can far outlive their planned obsolescence with a dongle or two. It's a little annoying but I certainly wouldn't trade it for the old days of serial and VGA/DVI cables. Like Larry, I administer Apple computers in my job, and I find that for all but very specific use cases (my personal use case notwithstanding), a $50 Anker USB-C hub provides all of the connectivity necessary for our users. Most new decent displays are also offering those same kind of connectivity options, including power delivery for laptops. Still, it's good to see Apple coming around on this point after they spent so many years trying to take ports away.

You can ignore the little USB hub on the right, it's not hooked up to anything since I moved over to the Mac Mini. Don't even ask me about it!
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by Larry Mal » Wed Feb 01, 2023 7:00 am

I think we've gone off course the OSG way but hopefully after enough actual relevant advice was presented.

Anyway, I'm looking into the M2 Mac Minis because I think that might work well, and I came across this expansion hub for those computers that adds important ports and importantly an easy way to connect a second SSD. It looks like a nice product to me that would stylishly and easily expand those computers.
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Re: Spec'ing out a new Macbook Pro for a Recording Computer -- Thoughts?

Post by burpgun » Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:02 pm

I picked up an M2 Macbook Air a couple of months back and it is easily the smoothest computer I've ever had. I have barely even dented it with Logic and even the ever piggy Live seems ok, and that one was tough on my quadcore 2017 iMac. The port situation does suck. I've got an orphaned Presonus Firestudio and had to get a USB Motu M4, which has had crackling issues and is just generally flaky. That's a step back from where I was. Had to buy a hub to sort out other peripherals.

I've been with Apple since the 68K days and have owned multiple machines in every generation. Sometimes these chip evolutions are painful and this one has not been my favorite, although it's a little cleaner than the PowerPC to Intel shift.

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