At which point do you start to talk to labels?

[Zork]

My band is about to finish recordings for our album and we intend to look for an indie label to release it. We just wonder what would be the right moment. Would you send
A) a rough mix?
B) a finished mix?
C) a completely mixed and mastered final product?
Will a label still care (and pay) for mixing and mastering a record or is the competition and financial pressure to high these days? What do you think is common or the best option?

[JSett]

There's more factors at play, especially for small labels. They want to see you regularly playing out/touring and having a regular following. They need to equate spending their money with selling records and making a profit. That's way more important than having a ready-to-go package of music. Even the smallest sensible run of vinyl costs 4-figures just for the records themselves - without recording costs.

In the UK, at least, most small independent labels will approach you (rather than the other way around) once they notice you making an impact on the local scene and can see you'll sell records because the fans are hungry for it. Things may be different in Germany but that tends to be how it works here. Business is business though, and there needs to be a market for what you're selling to make it attractive for someone to sink money into you.

[GilmourD]

Unless you're looking to release on a physical medium, DistroKid.

[distressed]

There's more factors at play, especially for small labels. They want to see you regularly playing out/touring and having a regular following. They need to equate spending their money with selling records and making a profit. That's way more important than having a ready-to-go package of music. Even the smallest sensible run of vinyl costs 4-figures just for the records themselves - without recording costs.

This. Usually they already have you on radar if you're established touring act, so the way you're presenting your new stuff is of less importance.

[sal paradise]

Agree with Johnny & distressed. I’ve had two bands where we had to self release despite label owners being into the music.

One was a reformed version of a band where we’d done stuff with multiple labels, but none fancied taking on an unknown band with a new name. The other band we only record, rarely play/ed shows & have no following, so it was “that’s a good tune, we can stick a track on a virtual comp. Let me know when you’re out gigging more & have a bigger social presence.”

[dinosaurkale->]

i think a big factor is what genre of music it is but generally i would say option C

any money a label is paying for recording mixing mastering etc..is eventually gonna come out of your own pocket later on

[marqueemoon]

Everyone’s definition of a “rough mix” is a bit different. Mine is all of the elements are there and it’s getting your artistic vision across.

I think it’s relatively rare that non-major labels have a big say in mixing, but I think if you have a label or two interested best to share early provided it represents you well, because it can be a long process.

I have friends who shopped already-done recordings and dragged out the first release a lot. As great an album as it is I don’t think it did that great for the label and they spent years trying to shop their second (which is every bit as good) before giving up and self releasing at which point a lot of the wind had gone out of their sails.

I’ve only released on thing on a small label, and probably the most important thing they did was hire a publicist, so we got a few writeups in national magazines and even had a few songs tucked in the background on MTV shows like Road Rules. We were never a touring band though, and didn’t play out all that much. Pretty sure they lost money on that deal.

IMO nobody should be holding their breath waiting for a label to come along. Make the best recordings you can within your means and keep plugging along.

[distressed]

any money a label is paying for recording mixing mastering etc..is eventually gonna come out of your own pocket later on

Not sure I get it. I've had labels paying for all/some of that, depending on their financial viability at the particular time.

[Domm]

I worked for both large and small labels for year in marketing. Unless you are a pop artist most labels wanna see you build an audience before they invest in an artist. Even at the small label 90% of what was sent in unsolicited was never even listened too, at Sony it was 100% not listened to! Was actually usually tossed in the garbage.

[seenoevil II]

The very very small labels are basically social media marketing services with maybe a bit of booking support. I'm talking the kind that help you put out cassette tapes in 2023.

They tend to be passion projects and are thus really carefully curated. Hense, unless you feel you're a slam dunk for their particular niche, let them come to you.

They definitely don't have the bank to pay for studio time or engineering. Besides, a little DIY spirit usually comes in the bargain.

IDK. I'm pretty sure (I'm totally open to being wrong) the whole idea of labels finding and nurturing artists is more or less dead. I think for the likes of us, theyrr more a business partner for mutually benefitial arrangements.
The scale required for these arrangements to make sense are such that, often, you're big enough already to find a way to DIY (or your manager should you have one). You can register with BMI, you can order and pay for your own duplication and merch, hire your own booking agent (or DIY).

I feeeel like finding an agent might be the more benefitial goal of an artist with aspirations v. finding a label. But again, there needs to be a lot of clear potential or prexisting clout there for it to make sense.

Just know that "it" (talent, taste, charisma, wholistic attractiveness) is a prerequisite to even being at the table, and most people who try don't even have that (in sufficient amounts). But "it" is 100% no guarantee of any success whatsoever. You still need a lot of knowledge, effort, help, and yes, at least a little luck.

That's my impression as someone largely sitting on the outside looking in.

[Dr Tony Balls]

After 4 or 5 pints i'll start talking to anything.

[øøøøøøø]

One thing I’ve learned to treat almost as a core tenet:

Never, ever, ever, ever rely on anyone else to have an imagination.

Obviously some will. A percentage might be able to envision what you envision, and a few might be able to see *beyond* what you can see.

But it’s unwise to count on it.

[welshywelsh]

We had the album fully recorded, mastered and ready to go. We were on the verge of dipping into our own pockets for a small run of vinyl and self release when a local label came in and took care of all that.

They approached us and had been following us for some time.

[GilmourD]

One thing I’ve learned to treat almost as a core tenet:

Never, ever, ever, ever rely on anyone else.

I "cropped" your quote.

It's a sad lesson I've learned in life, especially in my professional life.

Do as much as you can yourself.

That's not to say that if you find people that prove themselves to you that you should be a complete misanthropist but it has been, in my experience, exceedingly rare. I absolutely trust my wife and my two best friends to always be there for me, but that's it.

Sure, it may be more work but in the long run it'll be more satisfying when you're absolutely sure it was done to your own satisfaction.

As long as you can rely on yourself, that is.

[UlricvonCatalyst]

I think the succinct answer to the OP's question is "In the 20th century".

Seriously, if you're not on the verge of stardom (of whatever scale, be it 'alt./indie' or on course for daytime pop radio play) there's probably very little a label can offer you that you can't do for yourself. DIY is as easy and affordable as it ever was, but having a product to offer is just one part of the jigsaw.