12tone

[Larry Mal]

12tone is a Youtube creator, and he's excellent, and he has a deep knowledge of how music works and breaks down various songs and show how the elements work together, it's interesting, fun and I learn a lot from it.

There's nothing highbrow about any of it, this one is about Men Without Hats excellent classic "Safety Dance", and no, I'm not being ironic, that's a great song from a great album.

Anyway, someone might find this interesting or new.

[Larry Mal]

I guess I'm trying to get a conversation here but I don't know if that's working, but regardless next time someone says I'm mean because some Fender "Custom Shop" embarrassment makes me puke, just remember, I do actually talk about a variety of things.

Here's a video that talks about canon,, specifically, it's about classical music canon and how it came to be canon in the first place. That is, why are so many of the great classical composers we all know about German guys, were they really that much better than the classical composers from other nations and ethnic groups, or is something else going on there?

That video hits on that question, which I won't try and recap. But anyway, canon is something that has been of some concern of mine for a long time now.

As the immediate generation after the Baby Boom generation, I always tended to notice that a lot of that generation's music had become rock and roll canon and a lot of the music that came after that simply isn't. There are some exceptions, Nirvana will probably be canon, a lot of their contemporaries like Soundgarden and Alice in Chains probably won't.

Oasis, maybe. Canon isn't a universal rule or anything. What is rock and roll canon somewhere might not be canon everywhere.

But my point is, if you are a classical music composer right now, you are competing against a canon of long dead guys and that's a huge thing to be working against. And if you are a rock and roll composer, you are competing against an ever calcifying canon there, for instance, I'll bet the 50th anniversary of Dark Side of the Moon is getting a lot more press attention and marketing push than most things that are released this year.

Canon sells.

[parry]

Hang in there.
The internet can be tough

[Larry Mal]

Hang in there.
The internet can be tough

Oh, it's all good. I'm not so sensitive as to think that everything I talk about is interesting enough to warrant other people to care about it, I'm happy enough in my own head a lot. I just throw stuff out there to see if anyone wants to go with it same as we all do.

Still, just remember next time I compare Fender Musical Instruments unfavorably to Taco Bell and wish someone at Fender had the wisdom and vision of Taco Bell's parent company Yum! Brands that I tried to break out of my own canon!

[sal paradise]

I like the diversity of your thinking, your love & knowledge of acoustics and other interesting guitars. You’re also pretty damn knowledgable on home recording. And a lovely guy.

I never find the headspace to watch YouTube videos, besides rapidly scrubbing through gear demos.

Will try and watch it this weekend & add to the conversation.

[Embenny]

I actually watched the first video last night, but was too tired to post about it.

It was really, really well made. I like seeing such a ridiculous song analyzed so seriously.

And for the record, I unironically love it, too. I was a kid when I saw the police use the Safety Dance to try to blast Paulie Shore out in Biodome, and right off the bat I liked the song.

I've always preferred the version used in the music video because it starts right out with that synthesizer power chord. It was the only version I knew until many years later, so when I heard that drum machine spelling bee, it sounded slow and wrong to me. I never watched the show, but I remember coming across the Glee cover on YT whenever it came out, and I remember thinking, "what a stupid intro," without realizing that it was an original part and not something they added themselves.

It was interesting seeing him break down why he thought that intro was effective. It still sounds totally wrong to me, because I spent most of my life only knowing the single/video version.

Fun fact - I once arranged the main synthesizer riff for acoustic fingerstyle guitar in Open C. It worked surprisingly well.

[Dok]

I thought this was going to be a post about the twelve-tone scale and compositions featuring it. I'm glad it's not!

[Larry Mal]

I thought this was going to be a post about the twelve-tone scale and compositions featuring it. I'm glad it's not!

I guess it could be about that, I took a music composition/theory class on atonal music so I studied 12 tone row composition and have written atonal stuff.

The only thing I could really say is "I looked into that and it's not for me". Quick thread.

I will say, though, that the twelve tone guys weren't totally wrong, after repeated listening your mind adapts to it and you no longer view atonal music as being atonal. You just... get used to it.

[Larry Mal]

It was interesting seeing him break down why he thought that intro was effective. It still sounds totally wrong to me, because I spent most of my life only knowing the single/video version.

The long version is the one I know most, I ran out and got the cassette and played the hell out of it and that's what on the record. I loved that music as a kid, the new wave was really new at the time and it was exciting stuff.

After watching that video, I put on the Men Without Hats' debut album today, it's as good as I remember it. Fast, hooky, super propulsive new wave pop songs as good as anything anyone ever did in that genre, if you ask me. The whole album is as good as Safety Dance is, not a bad song there.

Are you gonna like it? Well, it's music written by a very young man about dancing and love and other things that young men should ideally get to be concerned about. It's innocent and bright and open and hopeful, and whatever anyone might think about the production, there were no rules then about what electronic pop music was going to be and Men Without Hats were fresh and groundbreaking. Shame they weren't rewarded with more success than they were.

Although I have to admit that I am part of why they weren't, I loved the first album, and then moved on from Men Without Hats and synth pop in general.

[bluemonday]

I tried to watch a couple of times. I can't get past the distracting time lapse doodling and I can't do audio only because there is something odd going on with that too. I understand that is all subjective though. If not a deterrent I'm sure he's informative. He reminds me of Adam Neely. He does some similar unpacking of songs, theory, and everything music. Check him out too it you like this sort of thing.

[countertext]

I tend to watch 12tone’s videos when he posts them. I don’t know that I learn a lot about the music, but I always get a different perspective - sometimes I chuckle at young(er) folks like him that seem unaware of things that I am aware of… buy why would he be? He’s busy noticing other shit that I didn’t notice.

It’s good to be reminded that everybody’s coming from a different place and my understanding of music can be easily expanded by listening to someone who is also trying to understand it.

I also see that it’s easy to find fault or be irritated by youtubers. You might not like Rick Beato or Adam Neely or whoever else for lots of little reasons, but those assholes love music and want you to love it too.

[JM Convert]

I'm a geniunely silent Larry fan.

I love the Fender mashup breakdowns. I love the acoustic knowledge. I love the sharing of well-thought out criticism. The humor in the criticisms is the icing on the cake.

Larry, I am sorry people made you feel uncomfortable for sharing your opinion on a message board made for sharing opinions.

I hope you keep it up as I enjoy reading your posts.

[windmill]

........I don’t know that I learn a lot about the music, but I always get a different perspective - sometimes I chuckle at young(er) folks like him that seem unaware of things that I am aware of… buy why would he be? He’s busy noticing other shit that I didn’t notice.

It’s good to be reminded that everybody’s coming from a different place and my understanding of music can be easily expanded by listening to someone who is also trying to understand it.

I also see that it’s easy to find fault or be irritated by youtubers. You might not like Rick Beato or Adam Neely or whoever else for lots of little reasons, but they love music and want you to love it too.

That is just what I came here to post.

I am just glad these people are putting their time and effort into making the knowledge available to others.

Part of Larry's problem is that, as a long time forum member, he is competing against his canon of past posting.

It is always interesting to hear his views on things and, as Countertext said above, we value the different perspective.

[Larry Mal]

Larry, I am sorry people made you feel uncomfortable for sharing your opinion on a message board made for sharing opinions.

I hope you keep it up as I enjoy reading your posts.

Thank you, but, I have to assure you and everyone else that my feelings aren't hurt or anything. I was kidding above, except for that I'm very serious when I say that I can handle the idea that a thread of mine would sink like a stone. It happens- sometimes people don't want to talk about stuff I find interesting. That's just life, and the skill is to deal with it until such time as you find someone who is.

Years ago an ex-girlfriend of mine was mocking me for participating on this very forum, and I asked her, "Do you want me to talk to you about this stuff, then?"

Guess what, she didn't. So I told her she should just let me do my little click-clacking on the keyboard and get on with it.

[fever606]

I’ve enjoyed (perhaps quite) a few of the 12tone videos - I’ve definitely learned some musical theory stuff, and I’ve used them more than once to gain some cultural relevance for something outside my musical “wheelhouse”.

There’a a stretch there, though, where dude had a straight up coke pinky and I cannot watch those videos… the nail is too distracting!