Is the end here for the Cure?

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by mackerelmint » Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:41 am

noisepunk wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 7:47 am
the cure were one of my last pre-pandemic shows– they were headlining a festival they'd organized and i didn't have any expectations having heard for years that they weren't great live anymore. it wasn't the most lively show i've ever seen (except Gallup, incidentally, who was full-on caged puma the whole set), but they sounded great and played some nice surprises, which i think is fine for a band with an average age of 60.

these guys decided to make a living at this (and are lucky enough to get to), and decided playing out was more important to them than continuing to write new music, and that might not be as interesting, but that's infinitely more respectable to me than a lot of other career choices.

and, jesus, fuck all this age and fat shaming. Robert Smith is clearly fine with being who he is (and has been for decades), so what does it matter to the rest of us?
It's not age and fat shaming, age and fat happens. Looking like a melted clown, however, takes some doing and is fair game.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by noisepunk » Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:26 am
I haven't been taking this as an indictment of old and fat people, mainly just that the makeup isn't working with the person that Smith is presently. Nor is the hair.

Frankly it's a distraction and an embarrassment.

There's nothing wrong with being an old guy, and there's a lot of pathways to dignity being an older guy and it's in no sense unattractive, either.

But not the way he's doing it.
mackerelmint wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:41 am

It's not age and fat shaming, age and fat happens. Looking like a melted clown, however, takes some doing and is fair game.
giant eye-roll to all of this. what someone chooses to look like is no one else's buisness. full stop.

also, it's still age and weight shaming– no one here had a problem with Robert Smith looking the way he does until he aged and gained weight.
Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 8:26 am
Frankly it's a distraction and an embarrassment.

There's nothing wrong with being an old guy, and there's a lot of pathways to dignity being an older guy and it's in no sense unattractive, either.
double quoting this because, my god, what hot nonsense. who gets to decide what dignified age looks like?



this place seriously feels like high school sometimes.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 am

noisepunk wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 am


double quoting this because, my god, what hot nonsense. who gets to decide what dignified age looks like?



this place seriously feels like high school sometimes.
Well, everyone does. I kind of doubt that you are completely free of judgement yourself.

Men can of course be absolutely beautiful, and I wish that more men embraced that. That being said, however, while a man can be beautiful at any age, the way that a man can be beautiful changes with age as a man's body changes.

And when you ignore the changes your body is going through and try and be beautiful in the way you were when you were young is a mistake that a lot of men make.

Let's consider Donald Trump with his hideous and laughable comb over. Why would he do that? It doesn't fool anyone into thinking that he isn't balding. He might be fooling himself but we all know that.

And the point is that a balding or bald man can absolutely be beautiful, but what makes a man attractive is confidence in himself and that is immediately ruined by him trying to appear young when he's not. The second a man tries to fool the world into thinking he's not balding when he clearly is he looks a fool, like a vain, insecure, under confident fool. Not an attractive look.

I don't think anyone would say that Robert Smith was a man lacking in confidence, however he's doing the things that made him beautiful as a young man and they don't work on an old man and that's all there is to it.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by BeeTL » Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:49 am

I have no problem with Robert Smith being fat and old and wearing stage makeup.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by BearBoy » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:17 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 am
I don't think anyone would say that Robert Smith was a man lacking in confidence, however he's doing the things that made him beautiful as a young man and they don't work on an old man and that's all there is to it.
Maybe he's not trying to be "beautiful". Maybe he just likes how he looks and couldn't give a flying fuck whether you think his look "works" or not. Jesus :fp:

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:30 am

BearBoy wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:17 am


Maybe he's not trying to be "beautiful".
People that don't try to be beautiful don't spend so much time on their appearance. I'm not picking on a guy who isn't very, very, very concerned with his appearance here.

But wow! People sure are angry here. I'm sure I'm dealing with a bunch of people that have never been critical of anyone's appearance. What a moral high ground they have over me!

Oh, I also made a rude comment about Donald Trump, so please be sure to defend that man's appearance also. Be sure to tell me what's good about that comb-over.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by noisepunk » Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:09 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 10:41 am
noisepunk wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 am
double quoting this because, my god, what hot nonsense. who gets to decide what dignified age looks like?



this place seriously feels like high school sometimes.
Well, everyone does. I kind of doubt that you are completely free of judgement yourself.
i'm definitely not, and i don't think anyone else here is either (kudos to the monks of OSG), but i certainly try to check myself whenever it happens. it's mean spirited, it centering my own subjectivity as as superior to others, but above all has nothing to do with me, does nothing to me (except force me to confront some unconscious biases), and above all is none of my business.

i've absolutely talked shit about how trump looks. i think everyone here would agree he's a much worthier target for being dished on than Robert Smith is, but even there it isn't cool; his hair, his body, his business. and it's not like there's any shortage of awful things someone can say about him that aren't based in superficiality.

while were on the subject of confidence, foolishness, and things that are unbecoming, it's not exactly a great look to double down and get defensive when people point out that an opinion or belief is a little uncool. just my opinion though.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by Larry Mal » Sat Aug 21, 2021 1:29 pm

Not sure if I am really getting all that defensive, and I don't need to, because the number of humans that hasn't made rude comments about the appearance of other humans is absolutely zero. Each of you criticizing me for that is just as guilty, as you acknowledge.

I'll also point out that I am not making fun of someone for age or weight, either, I am making fun of these people because they both aging gracelessly by their own choice.

Donald Trump and Robert Smith have one thing in common, they were both very good looking young men that did not know how to grown into being attractive old men. It happens. It's worth making fun of for the same reasons people make fun of anything.

I'm also punching up here. I'm also equal opportunity... I am making fun of Donald Trump (who I despise) as well as Robert Smith (who I like).

I'm not regretting my comments. His makeup looks bad on him. Garish.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by BeeTL » Sat Aug 21, 2021 3:12 pm

Larry Mal wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 11:30 am
[...] But wow! People sure are angry here. I'm sure I'm dealing with a bunch of people that have never been critical of anyone's appearance. What a moral high ground they have over me! [...]
For the record, I just offered my perspective. I have never felt like the ghoulish smeared clown-face that Robert Smith was ever about beauty, quite the opposite. The fact that his body has caught up with his face is just part of the process.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by eggwheat » Sat Aug 21, 2021 4:13 pm

He’s an unhealthy man…lives on pootnoodles and beer, hair has gone and is a combover..no children, sitting in a mansion in a remote village..parents died in last few years and his brother. I actually feel sad and a bit concerned for him..I don’t like the deterioration, feels a bit like Brian Wilson.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by mackerelmint » Sun Aug 22, 2021 12:35 pm

noisepunk wrote:
Sat Aug 21, 2021 9:46 am
no one here had a problem with Robert Smith looking the way he does until he aged and gained weight.
I always did. Even when I was young in the 80s and he'd just started with the giant hair and all, I thought it looked awful, and combined with his tortured sounding vocal style it was just too much and crept into unwitting self-parody.

By comparison, Anthony Kiedis is nearly 60 and shirtlessly raps about his penis. Again, there are just some ways for people to style themselves (literally and figuratively) that have a shelf life. We've all seen this one before, and I've never seen anybody call agism on it, for good reason:

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But, OSG didn't exist until after time did to him what time does to us all. So with all that said, I reject your premise. You disagree with how we see his presentation, and that's fine.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by Plumerai » Mon Aug 23, 2021 6:10 am

If Smith did away with the makeup he'd probably look like Kevin Shields.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by burpgun » Mon Aug 23, 2021 9:32 am

Here's the thing with men and hair and age: It sucks going bald, at least it does for most. But if it's happening, it's happening, and starting some sort of engineering process to cover it up is always futile. I'm finally hitting the age where mine is going. Tried growing it out a while ago and saw it was going to be a failure, so I realized that door had closed. I'm not sure what the "dignified" approach would be for Robert Smith, who I greatly admire for his past work, but building up some rat's nest to keep yourself looking like you once did is never going to look great and folks are going to notice. Maybe he should look to whatever is going on with Porl, who is bald and dresses pretty wild but it seems like it fits him.

And for the record: Lol was the best drummer the Cure ever had even if Boris was the better technician. Current guy is just boring, could be anyone in that chair. Lol also seems like a very self aware and grounded man now, and I'm glad he got himself there.

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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by Larry Mal » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:49 am

It would be like if Bowie ran out on stage as Ziggy Stardust and shit when he was 60.
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Re: Is the end here for the Cure?

Post by BeeTL » Mon Aug 23, 2021 11:33 am

Larry Mal wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:49 am
It would be like if Bowie ran out on stage as Ziggy Stardust and shit when he was 60.
I think some people might have loved that, and Bowie could have pulled it off without missing a beat. Along those lines: Prince & Madonna.
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