Why don’t I get Big Star?

[stevejamsecono]

Also as a quick addendum you don't have to 'get' anything, fwiw.

The Velvet Underground was a huge influence on a lot of bands I love, but I've never liked them at all. All the 'transgressive' stuff feels forced and dated to me so it just leaves me cold. Doesn't make them not important, just means it's not for me!

[sal paradise]

Every song on that album is wonderful. Well, actually, I never loved the opening song "Kizza Me" all that much.

Give it a bunch of spins, it takes a while.

Oh, and listen to Jody Stephens on those drums- he also sings "For You" and does a great job with that. But fuck, his drum playing on that music is among the best drum playing I have ever heard, I always wanted to be like him.

Given 3rd a proper spin this morning. A lot to take in across 18 tracks, yet I’m definitely more into it than the chameleon folk/blues rock style of the first two albums. Now I can see the big indie influence far easier.

Thanks, and yes the drums are cool. 60s feel, with a 70s rock edge. Also, production feels super retro for ‘79. Which is cool.

I shall continue with this album for a bit. Cheers for the suggestion.

Anyway, not sure if this is the doc I saw, but have a peep. Big Star Documentary

Not available in the UK - will have a look for it though. I love a documentary or biography about almost any band, so definitely up my street.

[sal paradise]

Also as a quick addendum you don't have to 'get' anything, fwiw.

The Velvet Underground was a huge influence on a lot of bands I love, but I've never liked them at all. All the 'transgressive' stuff feels forced and dated to me so it just leaves me cold. Doesn't make them not important, just means it's not for me!

True. It’s just that Big Star’s famous output is pretty much exactly in the ballpark of music that I love. And they’re so revered that it’s always perplexed me why I didn’t love them too.

[stevejamsecono]

Also as a quick addendum you don't have to 'get' anything, fwiw.

The Velvet Underground was a huge influence on a lot of bands I love, but I've never liked them at all. All the 'transgressive' stuff feels forced and dated to me so it just leaves me cold. Doesn't make them not important, just means it's not for me!

True. It’s just that Big Star’s famous output is pretty much exactly in the ballpark of music that I love. And they’re so revered that it’s always perplexed me why I didn’t love them too.

I felt the same way about it for a long time.

One barrier for me was the weight given to that music without the context of hearing them like the members of the Replacements, REM, etc. that were so heavily influenced by them did. I can totally see how they must have felt like they were coming out of another dimension after ten years of Grand Funk Railroad and Black Sabbath and stuff like that -- it just wasn't how I was introduced to them so I didn't get the same experience.

[panoramic]

I liken them to Teenage Fanclub riffage without a rat pedal and then it makes more sense to me. I like them but I don't consider them a big influence on my style like maybe Television or The Cure. I think they were early to a sound that I love though.

[sal paradise]

I liken them to Teenage Fanclub riffage without a rat pedal and then it makes more sense to me. I like them but I don't consider them a big influence on my style like maybe Television or The Cure. I think they were early to a sound that I love though.

But their debut album is sort of basically thin Lizzy crossed with T-Rex, then the odd CSNY or Bowie type track mixed in. Or am I going crazy? That’s why I never got the indie thing until now listening to the later albums.

Wow, just realised I’ve referenced about 10 bands that they sound like. Does anybody else hear it? They’re musical chameleons.

[sal paradise]

Ahhhh, and I’ve just realised that I’m not a huge fan of glam rock. So maybe that’s why when I heard the famous songs, those are all upbeat Bolan kinda things

[andy_tchp]

Yeah, they're 'fine' but I don't listen to them even semi-regularly. 'Holocaust' is a great song, maybe I'll dust that album off and give it another spin.

There are heaps of bands I 'should' like based on other things I'm a fan of but don't. Not worth expending too much energy/thought on IMHO.

[DaddyDom]

I think the answer is that A) You don't have to and B) Context.

I am forever reading folks say they don't get the Smiths or Stone Roses either.

It's all about context.

What was around at that time? We can't go back in time so we can't experience hearing Big Star for the first time in the world of Don McLean, James Taylor et al.

[Jaguar018]

I suggest going back in time and be young and in college in the early 90s in the midwest with a bunch of music junkies. I came from the east coast and there were all these bands these guys loved that I had no clue about.

But as DaddyDom just said it's all about context and being in the right place or the right time. There are/were a lot of bands that I missed the window on and I've made my peace with it.

[øøøøøøø]

I don't love everything Big Star did, but I have a lot of respect for them and the influence they had on the indie music scene in the US. You have to remember what they were doing at the time was bucking the trends. They recorded their entire first album at night by themselves at Ardent Studios where Chris Bell worked during the day, and the music they were making was earnest and vulnerable which was the exact opposite of what was cool at the time (of course later in the 70s it became the norm, but Big Star were ahead of the curve). The fact their albums were critically acclaimed but their lack of distribution due to the financial problems Stax - who owned Ardent studios - were having at the time meant that radio stations and record stores couldn't get the pressings and the band struggled to get any real traction. I can only imagine how frustrating that must have been.

Anyway, I think they're an interesting band with a sad story and a cult following that has kept them in the conversation for much longer than they probably ever anticipated. The fact so many musicians, especially in the midwest, have been inspired by them is icing on the cake for me. For some odd reason, Big Star and The Flying Burrito Brothers share adjacent neighborhoods in my head - maybe because of the general obscurity and subsequent influence they both had.

Just to provide a bit of clarity on a few points: Stax never owned Ardent (neither the studio nor the label).

Ardent was founded by John Fry along with John King and Fred Smith. John Fry retained ownership, as far as I know, until he passed away in 2014 (he was always a presence at the studio, at least).

Fred Smith exited the recording studio business to pursue his other business startup idea: an overnight envelope and parcel delivery called Federal Express (now FedEx).

The label actually came first, and the original National Street location of the studio was opened in the mid-1960s. Lots of great (and classic) records were made in this undersized facility, but they outgrew it pretty fast and commissioned the Madison Avenue location (which still stands) sometime around 1966. The National St. location (where Hot Buttered Soul and many other classic records were made) is now a corner store called the Na-Jack Market (it's at the junction of National St. and Jackson Ave).

The Madison Ave location was completed in 1971, and the Big Star albums were made right around this time (I think that first record was begun on National St. and completed on Madison Ave).

I think it was just before the studio move that Stax begun distributing Ardent Records... but they never owned the studio or label. When Stax folded and had assets seized in 1975 (or '76?) Ardent hummed right along.

Stax's own distribution nightmare with CBS (enough for a book-length work of nonfiction, truly) is what limited the distribution of Ardent (the label)'s output, along with Stax, Truth, and all of the other labels that fell under that distribution umbrella. It was, essentially, a major squeezing the life out of a powerful indie.

Ardent (the studio) still stands, and the rooms are fantastic, if a bit dated in their configuration (last major update seems to have been in the 1990s). They just sold their SSL 6056E desk in their B room, and I'm not sure what's going to replace it (hopefully something good).

The fantastic Studio A has a Neve VR60, which... those desks are not my favorite. If they could get something like a proper 80-series Neve in there it would be a truly fantastic tracking room, but I'm not sure the Memphis market would support an investment like that right now.

But Memphis does seem to have some upside. I was there late last year to produce a record at the old Sam Phillips Recording (also on Madison Ave), and they've really got that room doing something cool. Scott Bomar is heavily involved there now, and they've got one of the old Flickinger-modded Auditronics desks from Stax in there, along with some nice Burl conversion, some fairly choice outboard and a Studer A827 (as well as Scott's Scully 1" 8 track).

Would love to see Memphis (and Ardent, specifically) become a destination again; I'd love to be back there at least once a year working on records. It's a very affordable place to work with some fantastic, historic studios (Royal is still chugging along too, essentially unchanged since the 1970s).

[Telliot]

You're right, thank you for expounding on my post. I was in a hurry and might have oversimplified a bit.

My understanding was Stax was using Ardent as an overflow studio for awhile since they wanted to expand their repertoire to acts that weren't strictly R&B or soul, and yeah, the distribution was promised but fell apart as Stax went under.

[øøøøøøø]

You're right, thank you for expounding on my post. I was in a hurry and might have oversimplified a bit.

My understanding was Stax was using Ardent as an overflow studio for awhile since they wanted to expand their repertoire to acts that weren't strictly R&B or soul, and yeah, the distribution was promised but fell apart as Stax went under.

Stax was making a LOT of output, especially after Al Bell was at the helm, so yeah they did a lot of work at Ardent (both locations).

That original National St. location was right around the corner from my late grandmother's house, though obviously the studio was long gone by the time I was born. There's an ice cream shop diagonal across the intersection where I used to get sno cones as a kid. I think it may still be there.

[pocaloc]

I really like them and consider myself a fan. I do think they are overrated though. It's one of those things where they were severely underrated and only people who were really into music even knew about them. They sort of became this "in" band for those in the know. They deserved to be more successful and known then they were. It seems like they were the pet band of a lot of the power pop people with that sort of ownership people feel towards bands that the mainstream aren't aware of. I do think they're great, maybe just not as great as people make them out to be.

[mcbrandt]

I don't get them either. But, I did just finally "get" Slint's Spiderland like a year ago, despite all of my favorite bands since the late 90s citing it as a major influence. So maybe down a road a bit the same will happen with Big Star, but I kinda doubt it.