Let's talk about Rats.

[EdGrip]

Haven't read the whole thread - just a general FYI guys: aside from the lack of LM308 chip, the Chinese RAT2 is the same circuit as the original RAT. if you buy a 308 to put in, it's the same pedal. I did the Allums mod, then undid it (though I left the turbo RAT switch). I settled on a value about half way between the Reutz mod and stock.

For all that, this is a pedal I never really "got", until I got a Princeton Reverb. It's so fun!

[Spit on a Stranger]

I honestly can't find a bad setting on this pedal. I could kick the knobs around, then throw it out a window, and I bet it would still sound great. I've mostly been just diming the distortion knob with the filter around 9:00, because my music and style of lead playing requires lots of freak out moments, so the enhanced sustain and fuzziness is great for that, but I also love how the high end is exaggerated when you dial back the distortion... really helps the guitar cut through a mix.

What's the deal with Turbo Rats? Are they worth checking out? Do the older Turbo Rat's also utilize an LM308N chip, or is the circuit totally different?

[dan_abnormal]

What's the deal with Turbo Rats? Are they worth checking out? Do the older Turbo Rat's also utilize an LM308N chip, or is the circuit totally different?

Older TR's have LM308 chips. They are worth checking out.

[OffYourFace]

What's the deal with Turbo Rats? Are they worth checking out? Do the older Turbo Rat's also utilize an LM308N chip, or is the circuit totally different?

Older TR's have LM308 chips. They are worth checking out.

They use a pair of red LEDs in the clipping section. they're louder, crunchier and have more bottom end but with less sustain. That is the only difference between the two. Rat 2: 1n914 diodes, Turbo: red LEDs

[surfdivision]

I just ordered LM308N chip for my MIC RAT2 from this site: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/238506634.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I'm asking is, will ANY lm308n do the job? This one obviously isn't Motorola's

I'm going to install it and will tell you how different it is from the original chip, I'm not much of a player but I have a pretty good ear. Anyway, I just hope it will be just a bit less harsh/trebly, it was like 4$ with shipping after all.

[M.Hiltz]

I just ordered LM308N chip for my MIC RAT2 from this site: http://www.aliexpress.com/snapshot/238506634.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

What I'm asking is, will ANY lm308n do the job? This one obviously isn't Motorola's

I'm going to install it and will tell you how different it is from the original chip, I'm not much of a player but I have a pretty good ear. Anyway, I just hope it will be just a bit less harsh/trebly, it was like 4$ with shipping after all.

Thanks for the link. I just ordered one off that site as well. I believe that any LM308N will do.

[Spit on a Stranger]

Finally used the Rat in a band situation today. Wow.

After a while, I thought I needed an additional dirt pedal to boost me into leads, so I tried stacking the Rat and my Peachfuzz. BUT... I think I was wrong. Oddly enough, there wasn't much difference between the Rat alone and the Rat stacked with the Frantone, even if I dimed the distortion on both (Though I started off with the Rat a little more subdued). It's more just like the Frantone has an unnecessary amount of volume on tap, but after about 9:00, it's just too loud to use with a band. I think the Rat will continue to work as a stand alone pedal.

Guess I'm still getting used to operating off of just a single distortion. I feel like that's something people stopped doing in the last 15 or 20 years, and now we all have the luxury of easily accessibly, quality pedalboards to mount multiple pedals on.

The Rat just seems to have enough compression and sustain to it, that I am able to keep chords and single-note lead parts at the same volume through it, but with out compromising the distinct tone of my Jazzmaster. Still waiting to get my Tele Deluxe modded, though, so I can see how it reacts to some WRHBs.

[MrShake]

How's everyone else liking theirs? Good? Having fun? Good.

I got a nice e-mail back from a rep at ProCo regarding the power input. He says that the last 300 of the WF Rat RI shipped out with the new 2.1mm power jack. Without putting words in the company's mouth, it seems that it's going to be a big-time change for their pedals that was either "commit to the 3.1mm, 1/8" jack" for a very long time, or make the switch and let it affect the last (relative) handful of the WFRI. So there's the scoop on that!

Been playing a lot on the WF Rat and it really has a nice balance. It's very easy to find good sounds in any of my three favorite general settings: "volume boosting overdrive", "tight and crisp distortion", and "full on fuzz saturation". Recording demos into GarageBand is getting even easier, because I can set the tone I want (with the distortion knob), find a nice spot on the filter, and then use the volume to get a good, even, line-in recording level. Mediocre playing and songwriting aside, I haven't found a bad sound yet out of this little black box.

Highly recommended.

"And if you want one that REALLY sounds good, *sniffs cork*, I'd get one of the last few WFRIs with the 2.1mm power input jack. Changes the whole character of the pedal. The tone is FAR SUPERIOR to any other distortion pedal. Ever."

[Spit on a Stranger]

Like I said, I love mine. I've backed off a little on the distortion level, but it's still bordering on fuzz. It's funny how I always hear people comment that they don't care for the Rat's higher gain settings, but love it's lighter, overdrive tones. Because frankly, I feel the exact opposite. I find some of the lower gain settings to sound a little weak. That's where the pedal becomes a little too shrill for my ears, and balancing it out with the filter definitely helps warm it up, but it also loses its bite. But, I'm also a fan of Tubescreamers, and they're a whole other beast that can't do much beyond warm and crunchy.

But, yeah, I love the heavier sounds this pedal is able to produce. It's really working for the direction I'm trying to take my new band in... kind of like an early Pavement/Pinkerton-era Weezer type thing.

[MrShake]

It's a miracle... IT'S... ALIVE!!!

Stupendously bad day at work. I don't say it to complain, but just to frame things, I was in about the foulest state of mind I can think of. Real "I'm gonna ******* quit on principle" kind of stuff. So I've got a black cloud over my head to begin with.

Arrangements to have the non-functional MIC Rat2 repaired have been made. I tidy it up to ship -- I'm obsessive like that. I take the feet off, pick the fuzz outta the velcro on the bottom, and I'm getting ready to send it away, hopefully to come back rocking. When I was monkeying with replacing the cap that fell out, I'd taken out the LM308 in the socket, to make sure I wouldn't accidentally fry it -- I'm dextrous like that. (Yes, it was installed when I was testing it to no avail last week!)

So I pop the chip back into the socket one more time (to leave in when I send it off to ProCo), and screw the housing back together. I look over at my amp, and there are two cables on top of it. There's a battery IN the pedal. I figured it would be pretty silly NOT to plug in for just a sec and try it out one more time before I sent it. Hopes were nil. It was just so I could say "yeah, I tried it". So I plug it in. ...AND IT WORKS!

I don't know what voodoo magic it was, but I'm happy now. That scowl from work? It's become a big grin. 'Cause I have my other Rat back, and it sounds great.

And the LM308 swap? It makes a difference. Not a big one. To my ear, it's mostly about "feel", and how it responds to playing and style. It's a little smoother to my ear, not as quick on high-gain settings for squealy harmonics. It makes it "woolier" and a little less "bristly", maybe? Lol, these are all meaningless buzz words, but it does seem to make some difference to my very subjective ear, for what that's worth.

But again, that doesn't mean it sounded awful with an OP07! It sounded really great! Just.. a little bit of a different character to the same kind of voice. And over the weekend, I had my first chance to get up close and personal with I suppose what was what people call one of the "lesser" MIC Rats -- one of the "glued-on-knobs" kind. Now, I didn't really examine the circuitboard too closely, but there did seem to be a bit of a difference with MY MIC Rat in sort of "overall build quality". The one in the store wasn't bad, but it seemed a bit lighter, and the knobs seemed to turn a little differently. To be fair, it wasn't side-by-side, just from memory. The one I have seemed like some things on it were just a bit "heartier" -- but only slightly -- than the one at the shop. Which I was considering buying. The very awesome gentleman at the counter let me open it up to check the board. Then I asked him to check and see if he could carefully get the knobs off. He gave a few gentle tugs at first, then dug in. I was politely trying to interrupt and tell him not to worry about it and stop him from doing too much, lest anything accidentally happen.

Which it did. One of those pot shafts popped right out. He valiantly tried to put it back together, to no avail.

Oh man, did I feel like a jerk. I walk in, look at a pedal, and have the salesperson break it for me. Classy move, Mr. Shake.

My board? It's INFESTED. And I can justify ALL of them.




*** P.S. - I have to say again, while I didn't poke around the one at the store too much, the quality on the one I own is as good as any other large-producton pedal I've seen. Heavy-duty, well soldered (compared to other popular pedals I own), looked like decent tracing on the board. I can't vouch for the quality of the components, but everything I could see and knew anything about seemed "just fine" even if it wasn't custom/boutique level. So, the "Chinese Rats are an across-the-board suckfest" chorus is patently WRONG, because I have one that is solidly built, has always sounded great (no matter which chip!), and nobody seems to be talking about those very often (apologies to those of you who HAVE chimed in to that effect!). I read a lot on the subject before I buy gear, and I really hit the Rat info hard, and there are clearly people all over (not really OSG, though!) who are just parroting what they read on some OTHER forum as gospel, and don't know WTF they're talking about. Some of the new ones may suck, I can't say for sure. But at least some went out by 2010 that were very well-made. I'm not trying to kiss the company's ass, but there's a lot of supposedly "definitve", hard-line, black/white internet opinion out there that, based on my experience, isn't completely founded. There's a lot of negative, and little positive. For under a hundred bucks, the current production Rat 2 gets a thumbs-up "buy" vote. YMMV, and I DO think I like my WFRI better. But some of us have to stand up for this little guy! Sorry to rant. Back to playing

[HorseyBoy]

The only thing better than three Rats on a board is four Rats on a board. Love it

[Hoops]

3 RATs, you're my hero

I've gone from 3 dirt pedals on my board to just one RAT, it does everything I need it to, and the knobs are the best for adjusting with your foot while playing.

[Jonesie]

I decided to live dangerously, and started running my BYOC rat at 12v. Makes a lot of the sputtery sound go away, and makes it a lot tighter.

[MrShake]

The only thing better than three Rats on a board is four Rats on a board. Love it

Don't tempt me!

the knobs are the best for adjusting with your foot while playing.

Amen! The front edge of some Converse Chucks really do a nice job gripping the edge of the knobs, too! (Don't take fashion advice from a shoegazer punk)

It's funny how I always hear people comment that they don't care for the Rat's higher gain settings, but love it's lighter, overdrive tones. Because frankly, I feel the exact opposite.

I'm sort of in the same boat. I prefer them for stuff where the distortion is above the 12:00 mark.. nice and thick, but tight and punchy.

kind of like an early Pavement/Pinkerton-era Weezer type thing.

Damn right! What great sonics. Pinkerton is playing here now. I'm gonna haveta plug in soon.

I finally had the chance to really sit down and measure all 3 of my Rats up against each other. I've read lots of forum pages as TGP or TDPRI that make a lot of so-called definitive claims without any evidence, and I needed a shootout to decide for myself -- I can't stand YouTube.

I calibrated my pots by taking off the knobs, turning each all the way down, and lining up the lines on the knob with the first mark on the scale around the knob as best I could. I put the distortion all the way up and lined up the filter and volume to 12:00.

I could make all of them sound so similar I'd believe they were off the same production line, but they did all sound (very slightly) different at the same settings. Each have between 5 and 15 years in age difference (aging of components), parts tolerances, different brands of wires, jacks, completely different pots (the '96 has PLASTIC shafts?), so of course, there's bound to be SOME difference -- after all, every element can subtly affect the electrical signal, just usually not by much. The MIC is LOUDER by a fair amount. If I backed that off to about 10/11:00, it matched the output of the WFRI at midnight. Some subtle adjustment of the filter control (never lower than 11:00 or higher than 1:00, made the modded MIC sound almost indiscernable from the Whiteface Rat RI. Not IDENTICAL, but while I could have told you that they weren't the same pedal, I couldn't have picked which one was which. A little more tweaking might have made it even closer. The WF seems to have a little more clarity and note definition through the fuzzy distortion, but again, between parts tolerance, etc, it's about as much as I would expect between ANY two of the same mass produced product -- except these are (genetically) VERY different critters, the WFRI and an MIC Rat. "Remarkably close in a shootout next to each other" is one thing between two identical boxes, but remember, these are not identical boxes.

I was able to get the modded one to sound almost EXACTLY like the '96 Rat 2. [Which is weird, because as someone pointed out, the new MIC Rat is supposed to have the same circuit as the original, and the WFRI is supposed to also be the original circuit, with the Rat 2 having some changes, or so I thought. The '96, as I just found out when I cracked it open, is on the "Multi Rat" board (pix below) -- could that be the reason?]. I need to dig it up with a little internet research, but I've read posts detailing all the changes in the circuit, which, as I half-recall from an unverified source, is "Original Rat"("big box/whiteface/blackface"), then "Rat 2 with LED/NOT true bypass, later upgraded to TB with better switches", then "Multi-Rat" (with LM308 and then OP07 from '97 on, even made in the US), then the Chinese circuit -- which, as pointed out, is a recreation of the ORIGINAL BB/WF/BF circuit, except with a different chip. My MIC has a circuit board with a couple of coin-sized holes in one end of it, with nice big metal pot shafts that have a good wide-range sweep, for what that's worth. I have a feeling there are actually multiple versions of the "Chinese Rat" BOARD, but I bet they're the same circuit. That one that I saw in a shop over the weekend may have had a slightly different board and the pots were definitely different than the heavy-duty ones on mine.

If that information about the MIC being the OG circuit is correct, based on my little UN-scientfic experiement, I would have to agree that changing the chip in a 2010- MIC Rat, therefore "restoring the original circuit", seems to put it into VERY MUCH the same territory as a WFRI, which I'm using as my control "it's-gonna-sound-good, original-circuit" Rat. It's not the SAME, but if I weren't playing them side by side, I wouldn't be able to tell a difference, which I easily could with the OP07 at any comparable setting. Again, these aren't two of the same pedal, but two supposedly VERY different pedals with only the chip swapped. The OP07 version still sounded like a Rat, just "a Rat of a different flavor". Like a screaming vermin crossed with an extra-sharp cheddar. Switching the chip to the LM308 made a nice difference to push the MIC pedal into the sound of the classic circuit. I'll have to get an OP07 [Edit: why?] in case I want to switch it back and forth to try it out. In previous comparisons, the MIC was always the odd pedal out. It seemed somewhat "clangier", with more ragged and biting high end, as well as the tendency to get squealy on harmonics with the gain cranked (my favorite setting). I actually loved a lot of those attributes, but was so curious to see if I could mod it, I'm happy I did. It sounds great. But I'm glad I socketed, too -- I can go back and forth if I want to for a few dollars.

So, to my ears, and this is all subjective, I'd say that the current MIC Rats, with an LM308 chip swap, on an AVRI JM through a silverface Fender amp (re-tubed a few years back), sound VERY comparable (if not nearly identical) to a WFRI Rat and a 1996 (*shudder*) "vintage" Rat 2. Which all sound VERY SIMILAR to each other, and all sound subtly-but-distinctly different (not worse, not better, just less trebly and a bit smoother and warmer now) than the MIC sounded when it was loaded with the currently stock OP07 chip.

Phew.

Fellow MIC modders, PLEASE weigh in when you're done with yours and let me know what YOU think the difference is? There's a lot of talk out there on other forums about the Chinese ones, but not a lot of actual, real-world comparison. Bring it on! (I'm looking at you, Yakko.)

(fin.)

Pix! (from the guts of the 1996 Rat 2 with "Multi Rat" circuitboard)

[M.Hiltz]

Well put, bro! (NOTE: I'm not being douchy, he's actually my brother)

I just did the LM308N mod to a Chinese RAT2, and it definitely made the pedal sound fuller, and I think it was said earlier a little "creamier"

It also seems to help the problem (?) I had where there was only a very thin line between overdrive and distortion around 12:00, whereas now I have a lot more range to play with. I can go from a little jangly overdrive (with delay and reverb) to much heavier distortion, right up to the edge of fuzz.

I'm not going to claim the LM308N is better than the OP07, but I do like it more...