Let's talk about Rats.

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Spit on a Stranger
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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:20 pm

MrShake wrote:Spinning disc 2 of "S&E" all night. You were right.

Next up is "The Bends".
You should add Built to Spill's "There's Nothing Wrong With Love" to the list! I heard that album was all big box Rat into Twin Reverb, and I suspect there was probably a little bit of delay involved too.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:22 pm

Triple post because I just want to say, I can't wait to see how the Rat sounds in front of my Peachfuzz. For tomorrow!

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by MrShake » Sun Jun 02, 2013 10:46 pm

Spit on a Stranger wrote:You should add Built to Spill's "There's Nothing Wrong With Love" to the list! I heard that album was all big box Rat into Twin Reverb, and I suspect there was probably a little bit of delay involved too.
I love that record (hell, that whole era for BtS), and had no idea. You tell me this while I'm stuck at work and can't listen properly? Cruel, man. Cruel. But I do have the first 3 Pavement albums, and they've been getting me by. I always forget how much I like "Wowee Zowee"...

Thrilled you got the noise issue worked out. Genuinely anxious to see what would happen. Your description of the "smooth, rich cut" is about as good as I could imagine. It really doesn't "harsh up" too much if you treble the filter. Rich low end with detailed definition on top. Mrs. Shake was asking how it sounded last night, and the only way I could put it was that it sounded like a Rat someone personally fine-tuned for me with a dozen little trimpots. Like "okay, bring up the upper mids a little..." (they tweak it)... "Good, now make sure the bass isn't too boomy..." (tweak, tweak).

Is the Whiteface Reissue "better" than all other Rats? Ha! Not falling into that trap. But it does all the things I like about a Rat (full presence, "tonal-shift" dynamic response, crazy sustain, good sounds from "grit" to "fuzz") as well or better than the other examples I own, for what I want out of a Rat. Definitely my favorite yet of what's become my overall favorite type of OD/Distortion pedal.

Hope to hear back from ProCo on the "why'd the power jack change?" issue later today... I'll let you know what they say!

Incidentally, I've noticed some online retailers now list the WFRI as "Discontinued, with stock available". For what that's worth.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:04 pm

Wowee Zowee might be my favorite record ever. Definitely the best Pavement record, and the most accurate depiction of the band and their personality. And I think There's Nothing Wrong with Love might be my favorite BtS, although it seems blasphemous admitting that it's probably better than Perfect From Now On. Although, Keep it Like a Secret has some amazing guitar riffs...

Oh, and I noticed one more thing that makes this batch not a complete replica... The ProCo logo on the side of the pedal doesn't say "Sound Inc." It's still there on the top of the pedal, where it says "RAT," but not on the side perpendicular to the ground.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by dan_abnormal » Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:21 pm

Spit on a Stranger wrote:You should add Built to Spill's "There's Nothing Wrong With Love" to the list! I heard that album was all big box Rat into Twin Reverb, and I suspect there was probably a little bit of delay involved too.
Big box Rat ('90s reissue w/ LM308N chip) into a silverface Twin Reverb has been one of my favourite combination for years.
In 1999 that was my main dirty sound. Match made in heaven, IMHO.
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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Mon Jun 03, 2013 7:29 am

That sounds lovely. I was a little worried, because I'd done some reading around the web and found lots of guys on other guitar forums saying they just couldn't get the Rat to sound as huge on a Fender as on a Marshall, but I'm in love with this pedal. The way the distortion and filter pots interact is really beautiful too.

I have to say, I really like the limitations set on my tone with this setup. I'm either totally clean or totally dirty. I can dial back the Rat if I need a mild OD, but this really brings me back to the days when I was just running a Big Muff (my first pedal) into some 60W solid state Crate. Man, that amp was awesome. I can't remember the model name, I got it used in the 90s and it has since been discontinued.

EDIT: actually, not to get off topic, but it was killing me that I couldn't remember the name of the amp, so here it is. GFX-65. Say what you will about Crate, but this amp ruled. It reeked of cigarettes and was loud enough to keep up with a bassist and a drummer. Had a bunch of onboard effects I never really used, but it would've been great if I was in a sterile 80s hair-metal band and needed some bad digitized flange. I almost kind of miss it. It's like the first thing I think of when I think of the 90s ;D
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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by MrShake » Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:18 am

That amp is... stellar.

Hoping someone can offer assistance. I was ready to start socketing my MIC Rat to put an LM308 in. In rehearsal it starts glitching, I look and see that whatever was once in C8 is now... gone. Two legs remain. What I really need is for someone to tell me WHAT component I must have lost (seriously, NO idea where it went)... and if there's anywhere locally (retailer) who may have it. My order from Small Bear JUST arrived today. I'd realy like to not have to order twice in a week, you know?
Last edited by MrShake on Sun Jun 16, 2013 2:44 am, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by MrShake » Mon Jun 03, 2013 9:01 pm

Sorry for that whining. I was freaking out a little. Overnight, I've found solid info that C8 in a MIC Rat 2 is a 30pF capacitor. I've found a place that sells them near Boston. I'm going to go there when they open. I want my third Rat back!

But until then... I have my new WF Reissue. It's just... great, really! Fun to play, really lively and responsive. Great for hitting my amp hard and giving it some dirtiness. Makes "big guitar" sounds a lot of fun to play. And it does it without slipping into "80s Metal" territory. BUT IT CAN DO THAT TOO!

For years I was torn between my love of Rats and my love of Big Muffs. I still love both, but I'm no longer torn. I have a couple of modern production Muffs and I really like them, but eventually I want to get a nice SUF or something and cross "good Muff" off my list. I wanted the WF Rat not because my others weren't good enough, it's just that I wanted a Rat that objectively epitomized what a "good Rat" was made of. And whether this "stacks up" to the originals is a matter of your own ears, I suppose. But I don't own an original and this is about as good a Rat as I could ever expect to play. Everything I like about the "Rat sound", maximized.

Are there any other forumites who wanna weigh in again on the reissues vs. an original small-box? Thoughts?

...Feelings?

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by dan_abnormal » Mon Jun 03, 2013 11:52 pm

MrShake wrote:Are there any other forumites who wanna weigh in again on the reissues vs. an original small-box? Thoughts?
...Feelings?
IMHO, the WF Rat is the only reissue that, straight out of the box, is true to the "Rat" heritage. I had the chance to a/b it with an original WF and a '87 "small box" and it's there, right up with the originals.
Whether you prefer a WF or a "small box" is a matter of taste, I find the WF to be creamier and the "small box" a tad more "in your face".

In the '90s, I really loved the "big box" reissue with the right chip. Sounded great through my silverface 135w Twin Reverb.

I find the current production to be really disappointing, even late "big box" reissues were sh*te compared to previous ones.

There are also many Rat clones/variants on the boutique market. First that come to my mind: Fuzzrocious Rat Tail, SUF Skinner Box, Blakemore Effects R.O.U.S. Can't go wrong with any of these if you want some tweaks and bonuses (e.g., the R.O.U.S. offers separate controls for treble and bass).

Good times for Rats...
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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by MrShake » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:10 am

Oh snap!

Thanks for weighing in. I like that term for it... "creamy". It still has grit and edge and cut (made more sparkly with the filter knob if need be), but there is a certain creaminess to it, to my ears. Fantastic adjective, Mr. Abnormal!

I have to admit, I must be wrong about my terminology re: "small box". I'd love to know the real score. I was under the impression that in '84 or so, when they discontinued the original "big box" Rat, they just put those same guts in the smaller enclosures, with the "small-box" Rat (as it's defined), being made up of both the Whiteface as well as "Blackface", before the Rat 2 circuit was introduced in '88 with the LED (and then shortly thereafter with LED as well as TB, and then on and on and on...).

HOWEVER, is that not the case? I've spent all night taking a self-administered crash course in circuitry. I think my left brain needs a break. I'm as fried as a non-socketed IC chip. Can somebody lay the details of the post-big box, pre-Rat 2 production down for us?

After all, this IS the Rat thread of note right now... why not put this info all in one place?

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:36 am

Here's a site a stumbled upon while I was still waiting for my WF to ship. It appears to be maintained by ProCo, and they have a pretty concise history of Rat variants.

http://ratdistortion.com/history/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by Spit on a Stranger » Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:40 am

Also, there's some serious Rat action going on here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvEY9FKc1sg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by HorseyBoy » Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:30 am

I'm with you on the love of Rats AND Muffs, MrShake. They're different pedals but I think they work very well together. I actually love using my Rat to 'juice' my fuzz boxes (as long as you keep the drive low on the Rat it works fine) and it works great with my Muff. If you ever do decide to go with a SUF Muff you won't be disappointed. I've got the standard SUF Violet Ram's Head and it's seven different flavours of awesome in one box.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by MrShake » Tue Jun 04, 2013 2:05 am

HorseyBoy wrote:I'm with you on the love of Rats AND Muffs, MrShake. They're different pedals but I think they work very well together. I actually love using my Rat to 'juice' my fuzz boxes (as long as you keep the drive low on the Rat it works fine) and it works great with my Muff. If you ever do decide to go with a SUF Muff you won't be disappointed. I've got the standard SUF Violet Ram's Head and it's seven different flavours of awesome in one box.
Oh man, thanks for the input! I couldn't agree more on them playing like old friends. I pulled the Wicker Muff from my board when I was "stripping down", and I admit, I do miss it at times, but I'm playing better. When I miss it, though, I miss juicing it with a little OD that always made it sing. But NOTHING did that like when a Rat pushed it. Oh, the glory! MORE FREQUENCIES!

And you sneaky devil. I decided long ago that "Violet Ram's Head" is my Muff flavor (yeah, yeah- ha ha ha) and SUF is the one I've had my eye on. I'm turning green.

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Re: Let's talk about Rats.

Post by dan_abnormal » Tue Jun 04, 2013 3:47 am

MrShake wrote:I like that term for it... "creamy". It still has grit and edge and cut (made more sparkly with the filter knob if need be), but there is a certain creaminess to it, to my ears. Fantastic adjective, Mr. Abnormal!
:D 8)
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