Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Everyone needs a stompbox.
User avatar
samborn71
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 45
Joined: Sun Jul 25, 2010 2:47 pm

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by samborn71 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 3:16 pm

Hey Guys,

Just caught this blog as I was reading through some topics.
Robin Guthrie is one of the reasons I got into the guitar to begin with, so like most of you I am a HUGE devotee.

After several years of trial and error I happened upon the closest Guthrie sound yet!

GO GET YOURSELVES A CHEAP 12-STRING ELECTRIC OR 12-STRING ACOUSTIC WITH A SOUND HOLE PICKUP!!!!! :freako:

I plugged a friends "Daisy Rock" YES it was a Daisy Rock, but I wanted to taste the 12-string monster.
Using the neck PU only. I ran that puppy through a POD Pro (set to British Class A with the drive set at 7'o'clock almost clean)
and some compression, then through delay. Then ran all that through my old Boss SE-70 with the pitch shift
offset a tad (about -2 cents and mix at 50%) and WHAMMO! I was in the land of Blue Bell Knoll and HOLV.
More verb and you will be in Victorialand-ville!

I tried this exact same combination with my Montana 12-String with a Dean Markley sound hole pick-up
and got the exact same results. This effect can be achieved by nearly any decent pre-amp with these
effects settings from any unit. The thing to remember is the source. That 12-string seems to reproduce
the sound of Guthrie's Eventide chain with some pretty amazing similarity. More importantly, it won't
break the bank.

I hook this all through my Line 6 DL-4 and loop myself into Cocteau oblivion!

Anyhow, I thought I would share this with anyone who's still interested :)
12 Strings kill the fingers, so remember to take a break after and hour or so otherwise you will not be
able to use your left hand the next day! :wtf:

Sam

eggwheat
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5151
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 8:30 am

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by eggwheat » Thu Nov 11, 2010 6:08 pm

Yes, the 12 string is essential for a lot of those sounds.

User avatar
taunaleo
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:19 pm

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by taunaleo » Fri Apr 05, 2013 3:49 pm

Don't mean to take over a thread but I wonder if this would help with this question because I'm really struggling to figure it out myself:

How does anyone feel about a rack chorus like Boss CE-300 vs. a pedal like the Early EHX Clone Theory, Boss Dimension-C DC-2 for achieving this sound?


I love Cocteau Twins and I want a really rich lush sound, money being no object. Pearly Dew Drops, Pink Red Orange, Crushed sounds. What's the difference between this rack chorus and these pedals? Any insight would be very appreciated. I'm not sure where to go with it. I've had the small clone and want more. I'm not very tech savy so I could never figure out how Robin Guthrie describes what he's doing or some of the posts involving processors and such. I'm stuck. :wacko:

surfdivision
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 398
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 2:17 pm

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by surfdivision » Fri Apr 05, 2013 10:26 pm

Robin Guthrie's lush sound comes from a shitload of overdubs. However, you can approximate his sound with any overdrive/chorus/delay combo, or a decent fx processor. My old Yamaha fx500 can sound very Cocteau Twins, if I want it to.
Self improvement is masturbation. Now, self destruction...

User avatar
dan_abnormal
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 542
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2012 5:49 pm
Location: Milan (Italy)

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by dan_abnormal » Mon Apr 08, 2013 8:26 am

surfdivision wrote:Robin Guthrie's lush sound comes from a shitload of overdubs. However, you can approximate his sound with any overdrive/chorus/delay combo, or a decent fx processor. My old Yamaha fx500 can sound very Cocteau Twins, if I want it to.
To me, on the Yamaha FX500, the "Lush Strings" patch allows a decent approximation of Guthrie's ethereal, modulated and layered sound. While the "Soft Focus" patch is pure Slowdive...
Such a small, underrated and cheap piece of gear.
Ladies and Gentlemen We're Floating In Space

User avatar
Z*Z*Z
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:00 pm
Location: Zrenjanin, Serbia, Europe

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by Z*Z*Z » Mon Apr 08, 2013 3:22 pm

flange+pitch shifter+modulated delays will get you basics - but chord figures with open strings will do well with those effects

User avatar
PTrickey
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:03 am
Location: Jamlando, FL

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by PTrickey » Thu Apr 18, 2013 4:56 am

Great thread. Clearly lots of offsetters are fans of Robin's work (including myself). To the OP, I think you need to decide if you are trying to reproduce the sound live or recorded. If you are looking to do it in a studio scenario then you have the ability to layer the guitar tracks. His website provides a lot of interesting information. Specifically here:

http://www.robinguthrie.com/interviews/ ... -notes.php

In addition to that page he has links to re-prints of interviews. This one is pretty interesting:

http://www.robinguthrie.com/interviews/ ... player.php

Producing the sound live you probably want multiple players or use loopers. Both times that I had the pleasure of seeing the Cocteau Twins they had 3 guitar players. See here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4arnK6ZFck

For his most recent work, typically he is either playing direct and probably always in stereo. On his FB page he has some recent pictures where he is playing through two JC-120s.

-Phillip

User avatar
PTrickey
PAT PEND
PAT PEND
Posts: 10
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:03 am
Location: Jamlando, FL

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by PTrickey » Thu Apr 18, 2013 5:03 am

I forgot to include this video which does a good job of demonstrating some of the CTs earlier Treasure-era sounds:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ersoFDpfUc8

-Phillip

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by MattK » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:39 pm

Well this was the most recent of the Cocteaus threads - check out this shot of Robin with a first year VI
Image
(from a 4AD/Fender crossover promo)

User avatar
cestlamort
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 5175
Joined: Wed Jan 09, 2008 12:01 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by cestlamort » Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:09 pm

funnily at practice last night, I dove feet-first down a Guthrie rabbit hole with some new stuff we're working on, feeling like I got closer to Guthrie-land than I had before (although I haven't consciously tried for a long while). Probably not anything actually close or faithful but super fun nevertheless.

(however many years on, still making the same sounds, but with mostly different toys):
Pitch shift/detune > MXR flanger > DC-2 > stereo delay w/ mod > stereo delay w/ mod (ultratap) > JC77+JC90.

In other words: Mod / mod / mod / delay / mod / delay / etc.

Stereo does make a difference. :-*

User avatar
MattK
PAT. # 2.972.923
PAT. # 2.972.923
Posts: 3569
Joined: Sun Aug 10, 2008 9:51 pm
Location: Hobart, Australia

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by MattK » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:37 pm

I love how slender the A width necks are on the original-run VIs - my Japanese one has a B neck as they all seem to these days. When I finish my Mustang VI it'll give me the OG experience ...

User avatar
fuzzjunkie
Expat
Expat
Posts: 7276
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 11:32 am
Location: Seattle

Re: Robin Guthrie (Cocteau twins) sounds

Post by fuzzjunkie » Sat Dec 04, 2021 9:11 am

cestlamort wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 4:09 pm
funnily at practice last night, I dove feet-first down a Guthrie rabbit hole with some new stuff we're working on, feeling like I got closer to Guthrie-land than I had before (although I haven't consciously tried for a long while). Probably not anything actually close or faithful but super fun nevertheless.

(however many years on, still making the same sounds, but with mostly different toys):
Pitch shift/detune > MXR flanger > DC-2 > stereo delay w/ mod > stereo delay w/ mod (ultratap) > JC77+JC90.

In other words: Mod / mod / mod / delay / mod / delay / etc.

Stereo does make a difference. :-*
I wish he had stuck with the Big Muff, or at least trotted it out occasionally. I love the simple, pretty-but-abrasive early sounds. His playing technique didn’t improve much over the years, instead he just added more processing. The later stuff is certainly pretty and ethereal, but as someone said earlier, it ends up sounding thinner.

Well, individual guitars do. And it’s part of the analog versus digital argument, but live, with 2-3 guitars going, it wasn’t thin sounding. It was like listening to a Bulgarian choir singing inside a cathedral.

Post Reply